NSP or mixed age

[Troop90 asm 10]

We are a two year old troop, boy led.

 

We have three patrols all headed by one of the five founding scouts, an SPL and an ASPL. All are Star scouts

 

Each patrol has the older patrol leader plus 4 new scouts. These scouts recently chose a patrol leader, but not a patrol.

 

Assuming 12 new boys, what are the pluses and minuses of adding to current patrols or starting 2 new scout patrols.

 

Our programming is such that we anticipate the 12 new boys will make first class just as the new scouts join.

 

Insights will be presented to the PLC to help them decide how to handle this

[FScouter 24]

If you ask the boys that are joining, they will tell you they want to be with their friends. I'd consider that to be the primary consideration.

[Scoutmaster Ron 12]

The only way NSP with a TG. During patrol time NSP and Venture patrols work on different things.

[orennoah 11]

My troop has tried it both ways and we have had a much better success with mixed age patrols.

 

When there was the NSP and the "old" patrol, there was no way to have interpatrol competition, without it being patently unfair. One patrol knew what it was doing and was, in fact, running the whole troop. The NSP was full of the "blind leading the blind."

 

When we integrated the big batch of new Scouts into two, already existing patrols, the troop had a great experience, both for the new Scouts and the "old" Scouts. The "old" Scouts realized that their patrols would be crippled if they didn't get the new Scouts trained and full integrated into the patrol. The patrols competed to see which one could do the best job of training and motivating the new Scouts.

 

The new Scouts soared, all being taught by the most powerful and authoritative creature on the planet, in the eyes of a 10-12 year old: a High School student! One that actually knew their name and cared that they advance.

 

The "old" Scouts rose to the occasion and had a very real opportunity to practice the leadership skills that they had been taught and to learn brand new ones.

 

For us, the mixed age patrol is the way to go.

 

YMMV.

 

 

[Beavah 205]

Yah, you're set up right now in mixed-age patrols, eh? The question in my mind would be why do you want to switch? Is somethin' not workin' for yeh?

 

I'm with orennoah in spirit; the troops with mixed-age patrols seem more "scoutly" to me. They're more boy-led, because the senior, older, experienced boys are the ones leadin' each patrol and they're up to the job. There's more patrol identity and patrol competition. In most cases, the younger boys seem to get pulled into troop life faster, and aren't treated as much like da "little kids." Not only does it give the old kids leadership opportunities, but I think da biggest impact is on the 2nd-year scouts who suddenly find themselves to be the "older kids" who are looked up to just as much. Makes them feel special, too. Interestin' that there also seems to be less hazin' when the young guys are immediately part of a patrol and are "us" compared with when they're a NSP and are "them."

 

But I know some fine same-age patrol troops, too. Takes the right sort of guys as TG's and NSP-ASM to make that work, with all those high-energy low-skill bumpkins put together in one place; harder than divide-and-conquer, eh? But if you have the right NSP ASM and TG's, that model can really hum; the patrol activities are tailored to their age needs and they can become great friends.

 

 

[Lisabob 13]

I'm in agreement with Beavah on this - if you're going to use NSPs you have to have excellent support in the form of TGs, JASMs, and ASMs designated to work with the NSPs.

 

Our troop uses NSPs. Beyond that we have two mixed-age patrols and one "high school" patrol (not called that, but that's how it is).

 

Last year we had enough new scouts for two new scout patrols. One of them is working out ok, though there are always bumps along the way. The other has been, in my opinion anyway, close to a disaster. Actually the TG who was assigned to the more problematic NSP did a pretty good job last spring. But the ASM assigned to that patrol probably did not have the right temperment or patience for that job (and he has since quit). It depends a lot on the boys too. In our problematic NSP, practically every boy has some kind of behavioral issue. It wasn't planned that way, it just happened. So kids who probably would've been a little "quirky" if they'd been mixed into more stable existing patrols ended up being oil and water - or maybe it is oil and a lighted match? - when put togehter in a NSP and expected to work together and lead each other.

 

But I think I might be more inclined to say go with mixed age patrols. My son - a second year scout - was in a NSP-turned "regular" patrol. His experience with NSPs was mixed, a lot of "blind leading the blind." More like blind following the blind - not much leadership when no one knows what they're doing. The person who DID know what he was doing - the TG - ended up just doing a lot of things FOR them because, well, he could. And a lot of being treated like the "little kids" in the troop, yet without much help, teaching, or encouragement from older scouts.

 

At about this time last year a few boys from another patrol were added in to his. These are boys who are a year or two older than my son and most of his patrol mates. They really bonded and it has been good for all of them in exactly the ways Oren and Beavah describe. Right now my son's patrol spans about a 3 year age range and ranks from "scout" to "star." Oh and by the way it isn't always going to be the oldest boys in the patrol who end up as leaders (my son says - yeah, they know better!). Right now the PL (my son) and APL are both 2nd year scouts. But these older boys are, in some ways, easier to lead for our rookie PL and APL than a patrol-ful of same-aged scouts might be.

 

Lisa'bob

[jr56 92]

I have had more luck with mixed patrols, NSP can work, but you need really good troop guides and ASM scoutmasters providing guidance.

[Chippewa29 13]

Over the past several years, my troop has only gotten 3-6 Scouts crossing over each year. We've always had our new Scouts in the same patrol with each other. I'm a believer in bigger patrols (8-10 vs. 5-7), so having a group of four new Scouts in their own patrol doesn't seem to lend itself to being very efficient. If you have enough new Scouts (at least 7 or 8 you know will stick around) and a good Troop Guide and an ASM that will with that patrol, then having a purely NSP makes sense.

[Trevorum 24]

FScouter is right on.

 

The biggest single mistake I made as a SM (at least that I know about!) was in trying to orchestrate a switch from age-graded patrols to mixed age patrols. We adults had good intentions, but we should have known better. Coupled with some other factors, the troop ended up loosing nearly the entire crowd of new fellows.

 

My advice now would echo BPs: let the fellows form their OWN patrols.