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Bob White

3 program method/ We're havin some fun now!

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>>When a new scout joins the troop I presume he is here until he turns 18. I fhe has to look elsewhere for adventure and personal growth then we are not doing our job. So far so good.

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Barry, I don't know where you got me saying anything about the either program being a failure.

 

I made it clear I thought that if a scout wanted to do something different, more power to him. But the mission of Venturing and the mission of scouting are the same. As the unit leader my job is to have the scout unit I serve be "the best show in town". if a scout needs to get his scouting from another source then the program hasn't failed, I have as the leader of the program. A Venture Patrol is nearly identical to a Venturing Crew in mostly of its program activities. It is the same a s a scout transferring to another troop to do more stuff. if He isn't getting enough activities in this troop he should go to another troop and shame on me for not keeping the promise of scouting.

 

Venturing is a great program but it is an unneeded activity for scouts in a troop program that is following the program.

 

And while you think I am wrong neither the BSA or I do, so lets just say I see it differently than you.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

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>>And while you think I am wrong neither the BSA or I do, so lets just say I see it differently than you.

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Barry,

What I shared came from a Venturing orientation meeting, when the program was first introduced, with the National Director of the BSA Venturing Division. While I agree that the objective of Venturing is not to steal scouts from troops, far to often that is the reality as evidenced by your own post, Right or wrong, he takes a seed where he can get it. The wrong way is to steal membership from troops and your contact seems willing to do that.

 

He also said that without troops, Venturing would die, at least in our area because the majority of them are started and feed from Troop programs. Again, my point exactly, that is not the troops problem. If you cannot make Venturing work without taking membership from troops then it is not being done right and has earned its death.

 

Troops rely on cub scouts for membership but not until AFTER they are finished with the Pack.

 

If Venturing is to be a viable part of scouting it needs to develop its own membership without purposely damaging troops for its own gain. Some Districts have learned this and some have not. Our District keeps trying to do it wrong and crews continue to fail. I like the Venturing Program, but local Venturing organizers are its worst enemy, they continue to try and rely on current leaders and current members rather than injecting new bodies and minds into the new program. It is a great place for older scouts to go to if the troop isnt doing its job, or once they turn 18, but a scout in a properly delivered troop program will have no need to join a Venturing crew, he will be doing the same activities in a Venture Patrol.

 

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>>I like the Venturing Program, but local Venturing organizers are its worst enemy, they continue to try and rely on current leaders and current members rather than injecting new bodies and minds into the new program.

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How do Venture Patrols have a similar problem? They do not draw away from troop membership, They are a patrol. Troops are nothing more than a gathering of patrols.

 

On the flip side, what do new bodies have over already trained leaders?

every leader in scouting was NEW at some point. You cannot rely on the current crop of leaders to lead scouting forever. You must constantly be bringing in new adults at all levels.

 

He would tell you that an older scout program is about understand the maturity of young adults

Any level of scouting depends on that.

 

So if a troop leader understands that and delivers the program accordingly there is no need for a Boy Scout to NEED Venturing until he turns 18, because his troop, in understanding his needs, would be delivering a program to meet them.

 

So where was I wrong?

 

 

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>>How do Venture Patrols have a similar problem? They do not draw away from troop membership, They are a patrol.>every leader in scouting was NEW at some point. You cannot rely on the current crop of leaders to lead scouting forever. You must constantly be bringing in new adults at all levels. >He would tell you that an older scout program is about understand the maturity of young adults

Any level of scouting depends on that.>So if a troop leader understands that and delivers the program accordingly there is no need for a Boy Scout to NEED Venturing until he turns 18, because his troop, in understanding his needs, would be delivering a program to meet them.

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Most Venture Patrols are started as a reaction to the older scouts not enjoying the program.

 

Absolutely not! Venture patrols are a planned program element to meet the needs of older scouts so that they continue to enjoy the program.

 

"Same as your point that Venturing is started to save a struggling troop program."

 

I have no idea where you think I said that. I said that older scouts who are not getting the program they need will leave troops to join a crew.

 

Training is the issue here. If we cant train Troop leaders to develop good older scout programs, whats to think we can train Venture Leaders? Fix one, and you start to fix the other.

 

No, selection is the issue here. Anyone volunteer who was selected for their position based on their personal skills and attitude can be, and millions have bee, trained to be good scouters.

 

The scouting program has been very successful for decades training good leaders. But just like in the business world it is never 100% if the right person isn't chosen for the job you cannot expect training to solve all their problems.

 

 

>>He would tell you that an older scout program is about understand the maturity of young adults

Any level of scouting depends on that.

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>>Venturing is a fine program but it needs to find its own membership. If it cannot survive without taking membership from troops then it is either being done incorrectly>JLTC is a one week training course whose purpose is develop the scout and send him back to the troop to lead. If that was the extend of the Venturing committment I would have no proble.>None of those other organizations you mention are duplicating the program of the Venture Patrol

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BW,

 

I don't want to speak for Barry, But I do think I understand what he is saying. A boy loves his troop and scouting. He enjoys his patrol, the meetings and the monthly outing. He likes it so much that he wants more of it. He joins a crew so he can get a second weekend of outdoor activities packed into his month. I once knew a guy who loved softball so much that he was on two teams and filled in on a couple of others when needed. He loved softball, but being a member on just one team didn't give him as many games as he wanted. So he joined a second team and played twice as much ball. I think that is what Barry is talking about. That does not indicate that the scout unit's program is bad. It means that you gave the scout such a love for scouting that he wants more of it. What would you do to fulfill this scouts desire, add a second campout per month?

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I never said the scout couldn't join A venturing crew in fact my exact words were "I made it clear I thought that if a scout wanted to do something different, more power to him."

 

I said I would not direct a scout to Venturing unless he wasn't getting what he needed from the troop program. If we do our job right at the troop level the scout will have no reason to leave until he ages out.

 

The current SPL is a JLTC staff member and so far it has not interferred in his troop participation in the least.

 

What do you mean would I hold his troop obligation over his head? Thats ridiculous. That is the OA's rule not mine. It is not for me to hold him to that obligation it is the scouts personal honor that holds himself to it. Isn't it?

 

Does it really matter where they go to get more leadership and adventure?

No, what matters is how you get there. As I said I have no problem with the scout deciding. I have a big problem with him being recruited away from his troop by another scout unit. We are not recruiting boys into the troop adn keeping them involved in scouting for 3 years just to be a membership pool for another unit unable to recruit properly on their own. If you want me to send a scout to Venturing you have my full support, WHEN HE TURNS 18.

 

 

He enjoys his patrol, the meetings and the monthly outing. He likes it so much that he wants more of it."

 

Thats fine, take your Venture Patrol and go out again. Go Patrol camping every weekend, nothing in the Boy Scout program says you can't. All you need is a plan and the Scoutmaster's approval. Have a great time. See no need to be a Venturer to do that.

 

Why is everyone so set on taking the older scouts away from troops that are meetingtheir high adventure needs? Now do you see why so many scout leaders see the Venturing program as "stealing" membership. It is not designed to do that, but some people both professional and volunteer turn to that tactic because they can't make their program work any other way. It is a disservice to both programs.

 

 

 

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Ron,

Since each patrol program group meets separately I cannot give you details because I am not in that group. I can tell you that they will be choosing a new "Great Experience" each month and using meeting time to learn the related skills and information for that event. This month it is a backpack trip at a state forest.

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BW,

 

I wasn't suggesting taking a boy away from his troop. I said the boy might want more of what he is getting in the troop. Why camp once when you can camp twice? Realistically, how many troops do you know of that does high adventure twice a month? 24 outings? How many adult volunteers are going to be able to swing it? And yes, I know that the patrol can camp on their own without an adult. But again, how many troops do you know where that is a common practice. For some scouts, Venturing can and is a nice compliment to the troop. It does not have to be one or the other. Also, how many troops experience signing up 16 or 17 year olds? Do you think a Venturing Crew is going to be able to attract a large number of them too? By the time I turned 16, I had a job where I worked evenings and weekends and had a car payment. Unless I found somone willing to let me off for scouting, I wouldn't be able to participate. The kind of jobs that were available when I was 16 were service industry jobs and the hours available were evenings and weekends. Mandatory and inflexable. If I didn't want the job, they had a waiting list of kids who did. I just don't think there is that big of a market for attracting older boys fresh into Venturing. The majority of boys going to Venturing will most likely come from Scouting. Remember, I said most. The possibilty exists for bringing in boys who were not in scouting, but I think the odds are against you.

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Why do you keep bringing up troops that aren't delivering the program? Have I said anything about them? I said if the troop is doing its job, then older scouts don't need Venturing, because Venture patrols have the same adventure and leadership available to them.

 

You cannot use troops that don't follow the program as an excuse to using Venturing to sap members from good troops.

 

Go harvest scouts from bad troops to your heart's delight, those scouts deserve a good program whether it is through a troop or crew. But don't expect Venturing to be promoted in troops that have no problems retaining and developing older scouts. Go get your own members.

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