New Troop

[Basementdweller 608]

well Beavah

 

Looks like he is gonna ignore your advice........

 

I wonder if we will hear about the divorce.

 

 

 

 

BB your over committed. You will not do the best job possible in any of your scouting roles.

 

 

If you want to be SM then drop every one of your other roles and concentrate on that...

 

 

The Pro's don't have your best interest in mind

 

 

Beavah gave you some fantastic advice......Take it.

[bigbovine 10]

Boy basement, your a real pessimist. What Beavah is saying is what I am needing to hear. I havent decided on my role yet, that is why the questions. Do not take what I have said as a final decision, I am just wanting to know what that path means. I already understand the path I am on at the momment.

[Basementdweller 608]

I know first hand of 2 scouter marriages that ended because of scouting....

 

Witnessed a staff scouter in tears at an IOLS training weekend missing his daughters Y tribe campout.

 

Scouters missing daughters proms on and on.....

 

Anniversary's spent on campouts......Yep.....seen that too

 

 

Heard the term Scouting Widow??? I have.

 

 

 

I was that guy, well except for the divorce and cryin... Wife set me straight....

 

 

Everything in moderation

 

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

Mr Bovine,

 

I am on a similar track on not sure what my next job will be AND Mrs Turtle has been firing the warning shots and I can hear her reloading as I type. So please, please take this advice from someone who has been married a LOOONG time:

 

(1) Make the marriage a priority and that means time as a couple. Schedule it.

(2) Strictly define and limit your scouting time weekly.

(3) Make sure she is OK with it.

(4) Set a time limit and then reassess before re-upping.

 

Good luck.

[fred8033 1593]

bigbovine - Your stuck in a hard situation. If the new troop will be created in any event, then you have a real decision. If it wouldn't be created without your help, let a sleeping dog lie.

 

Beavah's right about numbers. Our city has seven troops and seven packs. Recruitment is a real issue. Hard feelings occur between units at recruitment time. Not much fun. Some years troops get enough new scouts. Other years they get almost zero. Not fun.

 

I look forward to the one-unit concept being piloted in our council in the coming year. I hope to learn more about it soon.

 

If the cub scout numbers just aren't there, hopefully someone puts an end to creating the new troop.

 

...

 

The issue I have not seen mentioned is your son's experience. It was raised to consider what they want. But what about their new experience? It would definitely be different than what it would have been in the existing troop. What new opportunities would they gain and what would they lose?

 

The key is that a boy's time in Boy Scouts is relatively short, four to seven years. And with the first three years being the most influenial as each of the first three years tend to be a different type of experience.

 

If you start a new troop, what will their new experience be? Any friends to look forward to sharing a tent with other than their own brother? Enough boys their own age to do things with? Or are they one or two of the only boys in their age range? They might help start a new troop, but you would be separating them from a solid scouting experience into a new program that will take time to get off the ground and in which they won't have similar age friends. That's important as it affects if they stay in Boy Scouts for five or seven years. Unless your going to recruit new members from the existing troop which I would NOT do because it creates hard feelings.

 

...

 

Another consideration is the personality of the troop. Odds are people want the existing troop to continue with a personality similar to what it has now. What is expected of the other troop? Will everyone be on the same page? Same idea and values? Same emphasis? If not, run away fast.

 

...

 

Your in a hard situation. I sympathize with your wanting a near-by troop aligned with your pack and with wanting a smooth transition for your next son. If you stay with the existing troop, your next son could end up transitioning to the far-away troop without any friends. If you switch troops, I assume your sons will switch you and then they lose out on their existing friends.

 

I wish you the best either way you go. Neither choice is perfect.

[bigbovine 10]

Well , I thank you all for the advice. Tonight the current Troop SM and CC want to have a meeting with me to see what options are available.

 

AS I said before, my boys have mixed feelings on this. They are willing to move Troops, because we have discussed doing so before. They were willing once last year to move to a Troop that would be meeting in their Homeschool group, but it would be a further drive than the current which is why that idea didn't follow through. Until the current 5 boys came in this year(One was my younger of the 3 in the Troop), There were only 5 boys including my other 2. That makes the current number ten. Nobody their age except the new guys, so no loss there. They can take em or leave em for the most part. Right now the only thing that bothers them is they just came off of a week of camp. That always causes some bonding, and the sooner after something like this happens the stronger the bond is. The group was dying when we came in, I just don't think they realized it. When and if this new Troop starts, it will effectively kill any chances of getting any meaningful numbers from the Pack. If it wasn't for my boys and I in the last 2 years, they would be down to 3 to 4 boys anyway. They also have friends in the Pack, which means no loss of friendships there. Basically the friend thing is a wash either way (also considering they are friends with the CM's son).

 

Talked to the Current CM today, and he is doing this no matter what. He has decided that he doesn't want the old Troops involvement, and I have a feeling it stems from the Troops attitude of the OA being "a cult". Even after discussing this with the Troop and them saying I could allow the OA in( they said they didn't want nothing to do with it otherwise), he didn't really care. He is afraid of possible backlash. I have known the CM longer and still have a relationship with him. We have helped each other out of Jams with parents, and we trust each other. We also see eye to eye on how we expect things to be run.

I also trust the current Troops Leadership. We have small differences on how I think things should be done (My version of boy led versus the SM's), but nothing that bothers me to any degree. That is why I am torn between the two.

As far as recruiting from the Pack, there is an average of 7 boys in WEB2. Compared to what other Troops in our council have, 15 to 20 is considered big. So getting an average of 2 boys a year to stay in the Troop is really good.

There it is, boys are good either way, I have good relationships with both Pack and Troop leadership, CM is starting this one way or another (Already has CO in line ready to go), Pack and Troop in one house and closer by (Wife really loves this idea with the little guy coming up), I would have done this 3 years ago if I had my current knowledge and experience, and yes we fully understand (Wife included)what will be required to get it up and running. The CM even said he has some guys that were in scouts that just joined the Pack this month that are willing to help, just not wanting to be SM. The only thing bothering me, the current SM really was expecting me to be the next SM in next few months. Even though I suggested being ASM so I could be on outings when he couldn't and so I wouldn't be pressured to be at every Troop meeting so I could take my little one to Pack. I have resisted this at every turn, but last month he basically said he was stepping down and I would have to take over(Just like what happened to him).

 

Once again Thank you.

 

P.S. Per your advice, I will be advising the CM if I do take this position, that I will be limiting myself to 2 nights week tops, and one position tops.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

Based mainly on the comments by Big Bovine, his decision to go with the new troop seems reasonable and plausible to me.

 

The old troop's failure to do recruiting for five years sealed their fate as an independent unit. Their only hope was a gift from new parents they didn't earn.

 

I'd look at letting the old troop and SM down as easily and generously as possible. I'd look for a merger of the new and old program if possible, perhaps taking the old troop's numeral to the new unit if the leaders and chartered organization would like to do that.

 

Perhaps you can do some joint activities or outing with the old troop. In the end, there can be only one. (well, that's only on "Highlander," but perhaps it applies here.)

 

In short, see if you can cooperate in order to effect a merger of friends and equals.

[eolesen 10]

Moving the troop over to the new CO is certainly something that you might want to consider proposing. If nothing else, it provides some continuity for the boys who've aged out of the unit, and also some instant tradition.

 

When I was a unit commissioner, I had a troop that sounds much like the one you're leaving. Small, no real source of new boys, and not a lot of motivation to stay chartered. They wound up changing meeting places, moving ten miles away from their "traditional" place. Some of the boys made the move, some didn't. They also found new boys in the new neighborhood. So it can be done.

 

I do hope that the message about wearing too many hats has sunk in. It's not meant to question your abilities. We've been there. And some of us will be there more than once.

[bigbovine 10]

Thank you for your responses. For those interested, things went very positive. I didn't want anyone to know my true intentions because I wanted all possible angles.

I will be staying with the Troop (My original goal from the beginning).

However, the biggest thing was the insight to spreading myself too thin, I really needed to hear that. Yes, Wife is happy even though I am not going the consolidation route. May have saved both Troop and Pack integrity, and opened the eyes of the Troop Committee. They agreed that there needs to be more active recruitment instead of "hopein and prayin" that the boys from the feeder Pack will come there way. Once again thanks to all for your opinions.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

>

 

 

Yes, that's all too common. And it leads to troop failures.

 

 

As District Membership chair I'm working with a troop like that right now. We've scheduled a recruiting night for the troop in September and will be using a community celebration and school visits to identify interested youth and invite them to the recruiting night.

 

No guarantees that that produces recruits, though. It may take several recruiting efforts to figure out the particular methods that will work in finding and attracting new Scouts.

 

It's tough work, but it's essential that it be done!

[fred8033 1593]

Didn't realize the troop was only ten scouts. Though not the smallest I've heard, it's hard to sustain at that size. Until your last comment, I had reversed routed and moved into the attitude to switch to the new startup troop.

 

I do like the idea though of moving the whole troop over to the charter org of the pack that wants to start a unit. It would solve two issues with one action.

[bigbovine 10]

"Didn't realize the troop was only ten scouts."

Yes, only 10 at the moment. Was 11 until we had an incedent at Camp. Only 3 of the boys are left from the old Troop numbers. A bunch of young guys now. The next group of WEBELOS coming up with the CM is 10 strong. We already have commitment from 7 and the other three just haven't decided if they are going to continue in scouting or not. There are 8 at the moment in the next group. My hope is that we will have 20 boys total in about a year and a half. At that point, the current CM who will be my ASM (Hopefully a second ASM from the next group) plus at least two more solid Committee members to add to the Troop.

 

"I do like the idea though of moving the whole troop over to the charter org of the pack that wants to start a unit. It would solve two issues with one action. "

 

At that point we plan on revisiting the moving of the Troop. We feel it would be best for all. Town A Has our Troop and another plus a Pack, Town B is our Pack, and Town C has 2 Troops and a Pack but in another District.

We are closer to Town C. Some boys go to Town C out of proximity and reputation. We firmly believe we would keep most if not all boys if the Troop was in same location as Pack.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

It's probably easier and less disruptive to move the unit while it's small and before you've moved to expand it rather than after.