Cooking and BSA

[Stosh 3452]

While reading a couple of the posts concerning advancement, etc. I noticed there is a lot of concern floating around the quality of meals boys seem to "prefer" on outings.

 

I began to wonder, is it because 1) boys really don't know how to cook, 2) this is the meal/fare they get at home and are used to it or 3) Because the SM allows it they can get away with anything goes.

 

There is no way I would ever go off to work everyday after downing a couple of Pop Tarts. Why would I find it acceptable on an outing?

 

There are exceptions/anecdotes floating around, but for the general boy, where does he develop his skill in cooking? If a boy is to Be Prepared, one would think diet ranks up there pretty high in doing it right.

 

When I went off to Boy Scouts from Cub Scouts I already knew how to cook simple meals. My first 10 mile hike with Boy Scouts, I made a fire, cooked steak, had potatoes and corn to go with it. Did everything on my own out of my mess kit. I was wearing my Cub Scout uniform because I hadn't yet joined by was just visiting.

 

Scouting allowed me to learn dutch oven, but anything on a griddle or fry pan of my mess kit, I could handle. This was back in the day before camp stoves were common and we did most of our cooking on open fires.

 

Yet after 60 years I still consider a balanced meal every time I cook which is all the time. I am not over-weight (BMI Index), but I eat well. When I see boys' menus the last thing considered is nutrition. They create menus based on their favorite things to eat and if they can work it in, bacon is served three times a day. Of course for a change up and real treat, bacon wrapped hot dogs, Pop Tarts for desert.

 

I have always used Kudu's 300' rule when it comes to eating camp fare at the troops I have served.

 

Why is it acceptable to allow taste tested menus rather than nutritional menus?

 

Nutrition is identified in the T-FC requirements, but that doesn't last 10 seconds beyond getting it checked off in the book.

 

Stosh

[charmoc 10]

Have a patrol cook off! Get some 2 inch ribbon at the local fabric store, paint troop XX Annual Cook off 1st, 2nd, 3rd places for best appetizer, best meal, best desert, best presentation/theme and only one first place for best overall. Draft up the rules with the PLC and insist that one part of the meal be cooked with a Dutch oven, change this each year. Have the scoutmasters as judges, make it a weekend campout with other scout knowledge challenges put on by the ASM with ribbons for who did best in what area. Top the evening off with something fun such as a movie or a traditional telling of a favorite story. Remember, you and your ASMs need to be excited, and make it exciting!!

[gsdad 59]

My boyhood troop was Scout led but we had to submit a menu to ensure we had all bases covered on camput meals. We were required to have a meat an vegetable at dinner, and were encouraged to cook a hot breakfast including meat. No instant foods, i.e. oatmeal, mashed potatoes, stuffing, etc... During warmer weather we could do cold cereal for breakfast. Hot dogs and hamburgers were lunch foods.

 

When I helped with my daughters' GS troop the kids, and other leaders(99% women) were amazed how much one could cook at camp. Somehow I became the unofficial cooking instructor/supervisor.

[Eagle69 46]

There is a 4th reason: It doesn't require any thought or effort to fix.

 

They look at time spent cooking as time that could be used to do something else.

 

I've done the menu approval bit in order to try and stop this kind of mindset, but it gets old after awhile.

 

As an adult I always looked forward to campouts because I knew we would be eating good.

[Stosh 3452]

Eagle 69 -

 

Time is irrelevant, If a boy plans a meal, shops and then does nothing but throw it in a box to be dragged out once they get there, there's a whole lot of prep time that could have been done the night before. Either do the prep at home or at camp, that's a choice the boys can make. I don't buy it as a legitimate excuse. It's more of a lesson in the GrubMaster dumping on the new guys that need to "help" at a meal. If the GM is instructing the boys, maybe the help would be better served at teaching them to cook instead of opening a box of mac and cheese.

 

When I cook, except for fire building, I can start cooking, eat and clean up in a half hour. On a canoe trip my boys timed me and I cooked sweet and sour pork over rice including prep (none), cooking, eating and clean up all before the boy's got their cauldron of hotdogs heated up. I did "cheat" that time and used a backpack stove instead of a camp fire.

 

These are skills that can be taught. I'm basically lazy for the most part and doing more work than necessary isn't part of my lifestyle. When I get out there I want to have as much time for fun as the next guy.

 

When I'm not pressed for time, I really enjoy a good steak, baked potato and roasted corn on the cob. How much prep for the corn? None, dump in the fire, rotate occasionally. Potato? Wrap in foil the night before and toss into the fire, rotate occasionally. Steak? 3 minutes on one side, 4 minutes on the other.

 

Dutch oven French toast? 30 minutes prep the night before, get the coals going in the morning and serve 20 minutes after the coals are ready. I can do that by myself faster than the majority of boys can get out of the sack.

 

I've attended a lot of basically bogus utensil-less cooking demonstrations most of which I've never seen done anywhere else other than at the demonstrations.

 

Ever go to a patrol cooking instruction class at a University of Scouting? Nope, just a bunch of cobblers to supplement the lunch.

 

Stosh

 

 

[Lisabob 13]

I do think many boys are less accustomed to eating balanced & nutritious meals these days (pop tarts for breakfast, cafeteria food at school for lunch, take out for dinner), perhaps in part because of the more hurried and harried lives we tend to lead these days.

 

On the other hand, I also think boys are more likely to have exposure to cooking and being the cook, than might have been the case in the past, as ideas about gender roles shift.

 

One thing I will say: I've met many folks who learned the basics of cooking and who developed a love of cooking, through scouting. My son is just one of them. He takes a great deal of pride in cooking for his patrol and they eat very well on camp outs. That took time to develop and he has had a few disasters along the way, but now he's the troop instructor for cooking and he's a regular on the cooking rotation at home, too.

 

 

[Stosh 3452]

I had a mother that was well ahead of her time. My sister was 11 months older than me and was responsible for all the cooking, cleaning, laundry, ironing, etc. When she went off to college... Yep, it was my turn. It was the best year of my life getting me ready to live on my own.

 

I really think it is a shame that we teach the boys individually how to cook, set up a tent, etc. but how much real instruction goes into doing it as a patrol/team? BSA is really lacking in this area.

 

LisaBob, it's good to see that there are a few of the boys out there that take the initiative of learning this on their own. It's too bad that more boys aren't expected and have the opportunity to learn this without having to do it on their own.

 

Stosh

[Eaglemom2b 10]

Let me get something straight? You have a boy plan a menu, prep the meals and cook the meals on his own? For advancement? I love that idea.

 

In our old troop the meals were planned and voted on by the entire troop (and often times vetoed and/or influenced by the adult leaders); lots of lazy man oatmeal and boxed donuts for breakfast. The Quartermaster then purchased all of the ingredients and was in charge of making sure all of the necessary cooking equipment, etc was loaded for the campout. Different boys were supposed to be selected to prepare the meals and clean up but the QM was responsible for how well the meals turned out (burnt or edible), portion size, condiment availability, etc. The QM was supposed to be responsible for making sure things were cleaned and ready to use at the next meal. The QM had this responsibility for 6 months; of course the spring/summer QM had a much tougher job then the fall/winter QM, the troop doesn't camp out for three months during that period.

 

Never, ever in the five years we were with that troop did an individual scout plan, shop for and prepare a meal for his patrol for advancement.

 

The only boy to earn the Cooking MB did so through summer camp and I have always wondered how well that program fit the reqs.

 

BTW - no one in the troop ever really volunteered to be QM because it required the most amount of work and, if the boys and adults were unhappy with the food,received the most criticism.

[Lisabob 13]

Eaglemom, that's messed up. Based on what you wrote, I don't know how boys in your troop honestly made it through the T-2-1 cooking requirements.

 

Every troop has things they do well, and things they could do better. Sounds like your troop could have done better on the cooking requirements and role of the QM. Hopefully, there were enough other things that your troop did well on, so that your boys still had an overall great experience.

[Stosh 3452]

Eaglemom2B

 

Wow, there are so many things wrong with that program and meals it's a wonder it functions at all.

 

Yes, T-FC has requirements for advancement your boys are not doing under the prescibed method you identified. If none of your boys have planned, shopped and cooked a meal, then NONE OF THEM should be wearing anything higher than a 2nd Class rank!

 

The QM is responsible for equipment, period. The "GrubMaster" should be responsible for the cooking, letting the QM know what equipment he will be needing.

 

A TROOP vote on meals? That is a new one on me. Patrol-method means the boys in the troop make their own arrangements, they have their own GM, QM, and they work together to get the meal out. GrubMaster is an old term used in scouting to identify the cook. If anything, the GM should be instructing the new boys on their advancement in cooking. If the troop is deciding on menus, they are really not following the patrol method prescribed by the BSA.

 

Every patrol should have a GM and QM. The patrol QM goes to the troop QM and acquires the necessary equipment to do the meal. The GM then takes over and prepares the meal with the help of boys working on advancement.

 

It sounds like your CC and SM need to get trained in the BSA program. If meals are this convoluted, what else is?

 

Stosh

[Twocubdad 665]

All of the above, but I see laziness as the big thing. I've noticed the cooking effort goes up considerably on two or three-night campouts. (So does cleanliness and organization.) On a one-nighter, the boys figure they can stand anything for 24 hours. Big breakfast Ssturday at home, cold sandwiches for lunch, hot dogs for dinner and PopTarts Sunday morning. Then Mom comes to the rescue with a big lunch when they get home.

 

Taking pride in doing something well is a fragile thing in adolescent boys. One "sucker" or "mama's boy" can destroy a whole lot of pride and good work. We spent a year teaching our guys to take cooking up a notch, to show a little pride and that a little effort paid off in considerably better eating. Started getting omlets, not just scrambled eggs; sausage, onions and peppers instead of dogs on cold buns.

 

It almost all went down the drain one morning when one patrol brought PopTart for breakfast and spent their extra time walking from patrol to patrol giving the others lip for wasting their time cooking cleaning. The next month, we were back to frozen waffles and instant oatmeal.

[kari_cardi 10]

Our troop does menu planning, shopping and cooking by patrol. It is interesting to me to see how my son's patrol plans the menu so that they can eat good food but have as little clean up as possible. Who needs a plate or a fork when you can wrap your fresh pancakes around your sausage and eggs?

 

My boys have learned to cook at home. I don't buy a lot of prepared foods, and my kitchen is open to all of them. They have to cook if they want to eat more than PB&J sandwiches. We also rotate dinner duty. Just like in scouts, kids respond well to being given valid responsibilities that benefit the whole family.

[JMHawkins 15]

It almost all went down the drain one morning when one patrol brought PopTart for breakfast and spent their extra time walking from patrol to patrol giving the others lip for wasting their time cooking cleaning. The next month, we were back to frozen waffles and instant oatmeal.

 

Seems that's about the time a SM should give the scouts with extra time on their hands some special duty, like cleaning the kybos or something.

[Stosh 3452]

as would any good SM of an adult-led program. Punish them for ingenuity. Instead, why not mentor them into improvement instead.....

 

Stosh

[JMHawkins 15]

Punish them for ingenuity...

 

No, no, not for ingenuity. For lipping off to the other scouts. If they finished their meal and did their own thing, great. (we actually have the opposite problem, with our patrols preferring to cook elaborate meals needing lots of time and even more clean-up). But if they're creating problems for other patrols, find 'em something "productive" to do.

 

Or separate the patrols even farther...