Relative Prestige of Adult Cub Scout vs Boy Scout Leaders

[kari_cardi 10]

I don't value one scouter over another based on the program they work with, but I've been at the receiving end of this prejudice. I think it stems from the general view of Cub Scouts as a feeder organization for Boy Scouts. If one program is the warm-up act to the other program as the main event, I can see why Boy Scout leaders hold themselves in higher honor. Also, BS leaders generally have more stuff on their shirts, which obviously means they are better leaders. Right? RIGHT?

 

Thankfully most scouters I've met are not like this.

[momof2cubs 10]

Basement, you surprise me. I may not have "earned the right" (whatever that means) to attend Jambo (not that I could afford it anyways), but that doesn't mean that other volunteers get to be condescending because they think Cub scouting is arts and crafts with mommy. This is an attitude that, by the way, is 10X WORSE when you are a woman cub scout leader.

 

Cubs in my packs DO NOT do arts and crafts with mommy all the time. We have taken them on hikes, we have organized bike rodeos and bike clinics, we have taught them flag football, ice skating, bowling, ultimate frisbee, and kickball. We have taught them to tie knots, fire safety, and some first aid. They camp twice a year, and we can't take them more often because they are not allowed unless a parent comes with them.

 

And it MAY be an issue with seniority, but I have noticed that troops are very quick to dismiss a parent volunteer if she/he only has pack experience. In these VERY FORUMS I have encountered condescending attitudes towards cub leaders.

 

I don't deal with the paid professionals much (none at all if I can help it), but it would seem to me very arrogant and short-sighted on their part. After all they expect/demand packs to meet FOS "requirements" at the same level as the troops, don't they.

[Basementdweller 608]

mom.....I have seen some guys do some pretty stupid stuff too.

 

The stay at home mom thing was very recent and fresh in my thoughts. The best part was she struck thru the errors in red and made the correction in purple.

 

Earn the right.......Bad choice of words I suppose. My point was there are a lot of new scouters who demand to go on some of these hard to get trips......Cub scouters generally should be the last choice because of experience. If no other better qualified candidate applies I have no problem with them going..

 

Eagle92 would be an exception to the CS leader of course his scouting resume is significantly different than a typical CS leader resume.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

BD, did you think I was referring to you? I wasn't

 

I thought that Cub Scouts was supposed to be a family oriented program. Thats why you need a parent/guradian on camping trips. Its not supposed to be the boy's journey, its the family's journey. WHen they transition from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts, then it becomes the boys program. Until then CUbs focuses on the family. or did I misunderstand?

[qwazse 4344]

I thought that Cub Scouts was supposed to be a family oriented program. Thats why you need a parent/guradian on camping trip

 

Yeah, me too. Until one year at cub resident camp this school bus pulls up by our campsite and out stream a couple dozen boys followed by two gentlemen from an inner-city pack! None of the boys were their kids. In their neighborhood you don't get the single moms to come camping, and dads are no where to be found. Period. So, these two gentlemen (one in his 50s, one in his 20s) stepped up.

 

These guys commanded respect from the boys, who all-in-all were really great kids. It was a pleasure to share a campsite with them. Deep down, I wondered if I were in the same position in my community, would I step up like they did?

 

So sure, we can talk about family-oriented vs. boy-oriented journey vs. young co-ed journey 'till we're blue in the face. But, no matter what, we adapt to the situation. The ones who adapt best deserve the prestige. And there's no way anyone can tell that by the color of the epaulet.

[Basementdweller 608]

Q

 

This is the program the SM and I provide for the boys in the Pack and troop. What you describe is us and our situation, minus the school bus.

 

It is hard, but the boys are fantastic.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[Jay K 15]

Yes, it's there. It's partly becuase the general progression is: Cub leader, Boy Scout adult, then District person. By the time a District person gets to that "level," they (we) forget what it was like to be new at it.

I tell every Cubmaster that it is hard work, and being Scoutmaster isn't as hard. I tell every WEBELOS den leader that they have a lot to contribute, and should become an ASM , or a Unit Commssioner, or something. One of the biggest loss -of -resource in Scouting is the Webelos Den leaders we let slip away when their boys cross over.

[Oak Tree 15]

Wait, there's prestige available? Where do I go to get me some of that?

 

When I was Cubmaster the Cub Scouts looked up to me and the parents told me I did a good job. They gave me a great retirement gift.

 

Now I'm Scoutmaster. The Scout look up to me (a little bit, anyway, or so I tell myself), the parents tell me I'm doing a good job.

 

That's pretty much all the prestige I need.

 

What do the district people think? I don't know. I don't notice any obvious treatment differences between the two. As Scoutmaster, I've been around longer and I know more people. I don't hear people putting down Cub Scouts. Maybe I'm just lucky.

[perdidochas 658]

Jay,

 

They allow Webelos Den Leaders to quit? My sons' SM told me I had to be a committee member :-)

 

For about a year I was Troop Advancement Chair (older son) and Webelos Den Leader (younger son)

[perdidochas 658]

However, I don't think it's a good idea for a Webelos Den Leader to crossover and become an ASM. I think they need to learn a bit of detachment, otherwise it's too easy to make the New Scout Patrol into Webelos III. I'm glad that I was asked to do Advancement. It kept me around, but a little detached from the boys. Even at that,there were a few times that I have almost jumped up and gone into WDL mode on the scouts. Thankfully, the advancement laptop has slowed me down.

[Twocubdad 665]

I'll agree that "prestige" is the wrong word, but I understand the point and the frustration.

 

Part of the issue is the usual career track of parents following their sons through the program means most Cub leaders move up to BS after a few years, but once in Boy Scout folks settle in for years. I don't know many folks who have served as den leaders or cubmasters more than a few years, but guys with decades as Boy Scout leaders or service on council and district committees are not uncommon.

 

Problem is, these old timers have lots of time to build their little empires which they are loathsome to give up. Oh, they are more than happy to let you jump in and put thousands of hours into the Cub Scout program, but when you move up to the Boy Scout level, don't think for a minute that years of work and effort earn you a seat at the big boy table.

 

I'd like to see a requirement that council committee membership reflect the overall membership of the council between Cubs, Boy Scouts, Venturers and, yes E92, Sea Scouts.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

Interesting thread.

 

 

My bias has been towards Boy Scouts. When my District Executive recruited me to be the District Membership Chair, my real interest was in recruiting more Boy Scouts.

 

However, experience taught me that the way to do that was to recruit more Tiger Cubs and Wolf Cubs into quality Cub Scouts packs and give them the time needed to mature into Boy Scouts.

 

Exactly that impulse has led me to be a TCDL for dens in two different packs, and to be a Cubmaster working to rebuild a pack that was down to a single 1st year Webelos (who did complete the AOL and is a Boy Scout).

 

I actually have developed some methods that can result in more non Cubs being recruited into Boy Scout Troops, but few Troops are interested in doing such recruiting. They depend on Cub Scout Packs to produce their recruits, but often do little to support those packs.

 

In short, I have bones to pick with a good many Boy Scout adult leaders.

 

MANY Cub Scout leaders were Boy Scouts when they were young, many Eagle Scouts. I was at a Cub Scout Gathering a year ago and encountered the Tiger Cub Den leaders for a Pack, which consisted of five fully uniformed adults, all of whom were wearing their knots as having received the Arrow of Light and Eagle as youths.

 

All of the Den Leaders in my pack are men, and they all were Boy Scouts as youths and a couple are Eagles.

 

Being a den leader, especially year after year, is a tough job --- tougher than being a SM for most, I think.

 

Cub Scouts is the foundation of Boy Scouts and the source of most Boy Scouts these days. I'm sorry to see that a lot of Scouters fail to recognize the contributions of those leaders.

[Callooh! Callay!1428010939 28]

As we examine the "greater experience equals greater prestige" equation... let's recall that some 20 year veterans don't actually have 20 years' experience; they have one year's experience that they've repeated 20 times.

 

Anyway... prestige? schmestige! You can have it. I'm in for completely selfish reasons but prestige ain't among them. I'm in it for my sons. My ability and willingness to help others along the way are considerable, but nevertheless incidental.

[Eagle92 110]

However, I don't think it's a good idea for a Webelos Den Leader to crossover and become an ASM. I think they need to learn a bit of detachment, otherwise it's too easy to make the New Scout Patrol into Webelos III.

 

I agree 110% on this one as I've seen it try and happen. And I think I'm seeing it happen now with a troop that had just gotten youth run, but now has a new SM who was CM 18 months ago.

 

And I hope that when the time comes, I remember this and can step back. BUT I admit I've interfered a few times b/c it is so easy to just do things. Luckily I cannot be an ASM in 18 months, so I'll be a MC instead.

 

Must keep repeating to myself: 'Have you asked your PL?"

[SeattlePioneer 144]

Maybe "prestige" isn't quite the right word. But if Cub Leaders don't get needed respect, the needs of the Cub Scout program may be neglected or ignored. That IS important.

 

I suggest that Cub Scouts is the foundation of the Boy Scout program and the source of 85% or so of Boy Scouts. That's a program that Boy Scout leaders need to look out for and treat with respect, I suggest.