The little league model

[83Eagle 11]

A claim related to Cub Scouting that has been made in these forumsand I am going to paraphrase hereis that Cub Scouting impedes the recruitment of real Boy Scouts and is one of the reasons behind the decline in Boy Scout enrollment over time. Furthermore, the example of little league has been used to show how a successful youth-to-young-adult transition program would actually work.

 

I thought I would do a little research into this topic whilst DW queued up a rather uninteresting movie last night. Well, it doesnt take too much research to find some interesting facts about little league. Look up little league decline. The number of players declined 24% from 2000 to 2009about 2% per year, with the number of urban players dropping even more. In contrast, just about every other sport has grown in enrollment

 

Now, lets look at the retention rate of little league and high school baseball, compared to Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. Well, this is a bit of a challenge because of the different brackets of little league divisions. Over 2 million boys play in little league, but its unclear whether those statistics include just the true little league bracket, or whether it includes T-Ball through age 12. Regardless, just 450,000 boys play high school baseballa precipitous decline that most likely meets or exceeds the 50% drop of boys between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts.

 

Interesting.

 

[Eagledad 2779]

High school is about the age when a boy realizes if he is good enough to invest the time to compete. Sports are no longer recreation at that age, they are work.

 

Barry

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

We have had a LOT of boys switch from baseball to lacrosse; purely because it looks better on the college application.

[Beavah 205]

We have had a LOT of boys switch from baseball to lacrosse; purely because it looks better on the college application.

 

Huh? Yah, hmmmm.... someone is goin' to have to explain that to this old feller.

 

B

[shortridge 184]

Maybe because fewer kids play lacrosse than baseball, and it helps them stand out?

[Eagledad 2779]

This happened with soccer in 80s and even 90sbecause all the schools (high school and college levels) were trying to become more competitive with the limited resources of a fairly new sport. Coaches of new sports are also in high demand because there are so few of them. A lot of European coaches moved to America when soccer was trying to mature. I don't know where to look for Lacrosse coaches.

 

Barry

 

[Engineer61 19]

83E -

 

Since I know a fair amount about Youth Baseball, I thought I'd chime in.

 

Little League is not the only international youth baseball organization. There is also PONY.

 

There are also numerous unaffiliated leagues all over the country.

 

Youth Baseball doesn't end at 12. LL extends to 18 and PONY to age 19 (Although PONY is far more successful than LL at the upper ages). Usually, it's players who didn't make JHS or HS teams, or don't want to put up with the politics of making a school team that play in the upper ages.

 

 

(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

I was told by two parents that some Ivy League and smaller NE schools needed more Lacrosse players and that it was easier to get scholarships. I do not know if it is true. I assumed that it was because it was more fun to play. What do I know? I guess I am old fashioned, I think boys should do things because they like them or find them interesting.

 

Regardless of the truth this was the belief of two parents just like the yellow brick road to wealth, success, and happiness includes a mandatory stop at Eagle Badge somewhere along age 13 or 14.

[83Eagle 11]

Maybe it's impossible then to draw a paralell between the different grades/leagues and apply it to CS/BS retention. So, scratch that line of thinking.

 

However, it does seem safe to say, based on the stats that I've seen, that participation in YOUTH baseball is on the decline--to the order of about 2% per year.

 

That percentage is, I believe, even higher than the decline in BSA enrollment. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

 

Now, it has been said here that the structure and delivery model of scouting is leading to its decline. In particular, Cub Scouting is criticized as being detrimental to the BSA program because it is not "scouting"--it is arts and crafts, indoors, the best Boy Scouts are those who never went into Cub Scouts, whatever. I'm paraphrasing again.

 

Furthermore, Little league (let's say more generally, youth baseball) is used as the example of a successful youth program, with good participation and a successful transition model.

 

However, youth baseball participation is declining, whereas most other youth sports are increasing--particularly soccer, which is somewhat ironic since scouting's "soccer outreach" is also criticized here. (Not a soccer fan myself, no feelings on that matter either way.)

 

Is it possible other factors in play among today's youth?

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

Son#2 was in FIRST Legos Robotic League and seems to be growing fast. It was started by Dean Kamen (the segue-way guy) and they claim to be in 89 countries. I have been to some of the competition meets and how competitive it is.

 

It was hard for him to do scouts and Lego league.

 

I imagine there are other youth programs out there that we do not even know about. There is a lot of competition these days.

[Engineer61 19]

Clearly, youth soccer has been on the upswing for some time. Most of us in the youth baseball world view soccer as the primary cause of the decline of youth baseball.

 

Soccer is easier to play at a younger age, from a skills standpoint. Run...kick.

 

Logistically, it is easier to organize as well. Mark off a rectangular field of the age-appropriate size, get some kids and a ball... and have at it.

 

Indoor soccer in the cold climates is doable as well...just get a gymnasium...most schools frown on hitting a hardball around the gym.

[Scoutfish 16]

My son played soccer before he was old enough to join scouts.

 

He played baseball just before he joined scouts.

 

He was lucky enough to have coaches who became coaches for the love of the game and treaching youth instead of the love of winning and crushing the competition.

 

I see alot of boys drop out of sports because of the yelling, the screaming, the fighting between coaches, parents and such.

 

Yeah, scouting has that to - to an extent, but in a more civil ( read lesss physical) manner.

 

 

Funny thing is..just on a guess and not any real numbers...I bet there are about 15 new things that happen, are invented/expected of kids these days.

 

Way back, wen I wint to skool , you might have had about an hours worth of homework each night unless you were lazy ( like I was) ten it might have been twop.

 

When my nephew went to school, he not only had 2 to 3 hours of homework each night, but also an hour after school of study hall and prep for prep ( preparing to prepare for college).

 

When I was in school, most ball player practiced for about an hour and a half twice a week. My nephew spent 2 hours every day practicing for that brand new girl attracting sport called soccer.

 

My oldest sister was a cheerleader and on the drill team. They practiced once a week for 1 hour after schooll and practiced 2 hours on Saturday. One of my neices was told that to qualify for JV cheerleding, she'd have to have 6 hours of jr high cheerleading and about 45 hours off dance and gymnastics over the summer at a specific dance school/gymnasium to even think about trying out .

 

 

Summertime soccer camp, football camp, lacross camp, wrestling camp, gold camp, surf camp, kayak/hiking camp, computer camp, home schooling, after school tutoring, after school prefssional tutoring, gymnastics, science academys, afterschool scholastic advancement camps, science fairs, jobs., schools, community service for graduation as well as senior projects...you name it, somebody has time invested in it.

 

When I went to school, homeroom started at 8am sharp, at 8:05 you went to your first class. We had five classes a day. You needed 20 credits to pass high school.

 

Now days, its around 26 credits, plus "X" hours of community service, "X" number of extra cirricular ( I guess they forgot what that means) club activities, and you have to score a certain percentage on a PSAT test even if you have no desire to go to college.

 

Now add that almost every home has at least one computer if not 2 or 3 ( we have a desktop and a laptop), so you have kids spending hours on those computers doing all sorts of projects that we used to do wit pen, paper and majic markers. They also go to social sites and who else knows where.

 

Matter of fact, every year, my county debates wether they even want to have reces in school anymore.

 

So maybe another reason why scouting has declined in that there are more requirements on todays youth, more choices, and less time.

 

Between planning your career and financila portfolio at age 9, planning your future childrens college savings by age 11 and your alternative to social security by age 15...today's youth are burnt out, tired and probably just want to sit still for 5 minutes instead of learning more info and trudging through the woods.

 

Incidentally, anybody happen to notice the decline in quality of education and scores?

 

Coincidence? Hmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[AvidSM 11]

A scout misses half the meetings in a month and still wants to go camping? No problem. A little leaguer misses half the team practices? He rides the bench or is put in left field for the minimum number of innings the league requires. Attending practice means better skills. The more skilled you are, the more you play (and the more you enjoy playing).

 

Scouting has no bench or left field. You tie one square knot, recite the Pledge of Allegiance and youre in. There is a minimum skill set that you must acquire, but being more skilled than that does not get you further in the program. We do have competitions between scouts at camporees and Klondikes, but them has no relation to the boys advancement. Scouting teaching cooperation, not competition.

 

Scouts live in a very competitive environment. Much more competitive than what I grew up with - more homework, more sports, more other extra-curricular activities and etc to boost your college application.

 

The problem is scouting can't compete with that. Boys and their parents are making choices as to what to do with their time and scouting does not end up as a high priority. It may be that they are not making an informed choice - that they don't see the benefits of the scouting program. Or it may be that the Scouting program's lack of competition lowers it importance in their minds.

 

Scouting's inclusiveness is both a strength and a weakness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SeattlePioneer 144]

What's happening to the participation rate of after school video gaming?

[Engineer61 19]

Let's not forget that most youth sports leagues last about 12 weeks. Scouting is 36-52 weeks.

 

Can't make school break trips and summer camp because you have to travel to another parent? For get the POR's.(This message has been edited by Engineer61)