LDS program changes #1

[bacchus]

I guess I'll be the first to comment about the new handbook.

 

There is no longer any mention about Varsity or Venturing. I think we will see a lot fewer of both types of units beginning at charter renewal time. The number of scouts shouldn't change so we should end up with larger, healthier troops. I think the patrols will be based on quorum identity.

 

We are closing our Varsity Team, but will maintain the Crew mainly so the older young men are not getting burned out by going out with 12 year olds every camping trip.

[Eagle92]

Bac,

If the older scouts are doing the instructing and planning with the troop, a venture patrol that does their own thing on their own on occasion or in conjunction with a troop trip, i.e. the troop does one hike while the venture patrol does a different and harder hike, then you should have no problems.

[bacchus]

Eagle, that's true. We still have the crew support the youth with representatives at campouts and have a quarterly joint activity. I guess it's semantics, because the same would really be true as a Venture Patrol.

 

The jury is still out on the Crew. A year from now we'll revisit and see if we need to go to Venture Patrol. The biggest problem I see regarding that is that I have never seen a functioning Venture Patrol.

[Eagle92]

Bac,

back in the day, when what's now called a Venture Patrol was called a Leadership Corps, I saw it work. Older guys worked with the younger ones, ran the interpatrol competitions, taught skills, etc etc. In fact being a member of the LC was a POR option for advancmeent, if memory serves.

 

Our LC comprised of former PLs who were elected by the existing members to join. First Class and being a PL for at least 12 months, usually longer, was the requirement. We did all the troop level jobs: QM, Scribe, etc. We did work a lot with the younger guys in patrols, but we camped separately, did some things on our own, and sometimes did separate activities during the same function. I remember doing the Vicksburg cross country trail with the LC while the rest of the troop did the 14 miler.

 

When they did away with LC for Venture Crews in 1989, for a while we continued the LC b/c we did have a supply of those patches , but once we ran out, 1993 or there abouts as it was after I Eagled out as a youth, they became a Venture Crew with the Venture strip. BUT they continued to operate like the LC.

 

Now here is where it gets interesting. When Venturing came out in 1998, and Venture Crews became Venture Patrols to try and avoid confusion with Venturing Crews ( which hasn't happened as we all know), one of our Eagles started working on the Outdoor Bronze. In conversation with the DE, he discovered that Venture Crews became Venture Patrols, and that you had to be a member of a Venturing Crew to get the new awards. So he talked it up and the Venture Patrol became a separate Venturing Crew so that those who Eagled could work on the new awards. They created their own bylaws, which included single gender and rank requirements ( Life or Eagles Only), and essentially continued operations as before. Don't know if the crew died off prior to Katrina or afterwards, but that crew isn't around anymore. And the troop suffered a membership loss after Katrina due to people moving.

[jhankins]

There are SO many changes in the new handbook. But the new handbook still works together with the old, so you have to reference both to get a clear picture.

 

Some of the new changes don't make sense, of course. It's still up to the Bishop to decide what's best for his youth and the youth he serves.

 

 

[bacchus]

Eagle, that's what we want to do. The way our program is set up, those 16-18 year olds are going to be in the same position regardless whether they wear green shirts or tan. I guess if somebody is stll a high school senior and turns 18, he better wear green or he's out of scouting even thou he's still in the young men program.

[Gary_Miller]

Hold up guys before you go changing your programs.

 

The revised Handbook 2: Administering the Church did not change the way scouting is being administered in the church. The scouting program is still using the Churchs Scouting Handbook, Published in 1997.

 

From the revised Handbook 2: Administering the Church, under the section 8, Aaronic Priesthood. The handbook is available for anyone interested at www.LDS.org.

 

"8.13.4

Scouting

 

Where Scouting is authorized by the Church, quorums may participate in Scouting activities during Mutual. Scouting should help young men put into practice the gospel principles they learn on Sunday.

 

Each member of the bishopric oversees the Scouting program for the Aaronic Priesthood quorum he oversees. Members of the ward Young Men presidency generally serve as Scout leaders. Or the bishopric may call assistant quorum advisers as Scout leaders, with members of the Young Men presidency called to serve as assistant Scout leaders.

 

In each quorum, the bishop usually appoints the quorum president or one of his assistants in the priests quorum to serve as the youth leader of the Scouting program. However, he may appoint other young men as youth Scout leaders.

 

Where Scouting is authorized by the Church, young men ages 12 to 15 should be registered. Young men ages 16 and 17 should be registered if they are pursuing rank advancements or if the stake president or bishop chooses to sponsor Scouting programs for young men of this age.

 

All adult Scout leaders should register before they begin their service and should receive proper training in their responsibilities. In the United States, registered adult leaders receive liability protection from the Boy Scouts of America.

 

The Church pays all or part of the fees for registering young men and adult leaders in Scouting. The Church also pays for unit chartering. Registration and chartering expenses are paid from the stake general checking account. The Church provides these funds in addition to the budget allowance.

 

The bishopric organizes a ward Scout committee to ensure that Scouting functions properly as a supporting activity for Aaronic Priesthood quorums.

 

Where there are few young men, a Scout troop may be organized to serve multiple wards and branches or, in some instances, an entire stake or district.

 

For information about financing Scouting, see 8.13.7. For additional information about Scouting, see the Churchs Scouting Handbook."

 

[Gary_Miller]

jhankins, "There are SO many changes in the new handbook. But the new handbook still works together with the old, so you have to reference both to get a clear picture."

 

The revised Handbook 2: Administering the Church, replaced the old Handbook 2: Administering the Church. They do not work together and there is no need to reference them both to get clear picture.

 

jhankins, "Some of the new changes don't make sense, of course. It's still up to the Bishop to decide what's best for his youth and the youth he serves."

 

I have not yet found any of the changes that don't make sense. I have found some places where the guidance has changed on the way a program is to be done.

 

The handbook is a principle-based approach that allows for adaptation as needed. While the Bishop has stewardship over his ward he still is required to stay with in the policies and guidelines in the handbooks.

[jhankins]

We'll have to agree to disagree, Gary. I have read the new material, and believe it will be a detriment to scouting in my area. You are neglecting to mention the things that changed and were announced last month at the leadership training meeting.

 

The way registration works is going to change. Stake troops can now come back. Wards can now choose to register with other wards and combine program should they feel the need.

 

But the heavy restrictions on fund raising are penalizing troops who are part of a community and actually lead scouting in the community, not just for their church boys (as the LDS church says their church should work). One fundraiser for camp?

 

So if the boy can't raise the money, the ward budget is gone, and they've had their one fund raiser, that's it? The boy can't go?

 

The Scouting in the church book is still in use with the Handbook 2. Policy is still the same for governing which ages of boys can participate in which program.

 

https://new.lds.org/handbook/handbook-2-administering-the-church?lang=eng

 

 

[bacchus]

Jhankins,

"You are neglecting to mention the things that changed and were announced last month at the leadership training meeting."

 

I didn't realize there was a training meeting other than the Handbook training meeting, which didn't reference Scouting at all. Was there another one?

 

"The way registration works is going to change. Stake troops can now come back. Wards can now choose to register with other wards and combine program should they feel the need."

 

I think this is positive for Scouting. What your statement really means is that if one ward has a Troop of 16 young men, and the next ward or branch has 2, those 2 can participate with the 16 should they so choose. Also, for example, if there are a small number of 16-18 year olds, the Stake can charter a Venturing Crew. I don't see any negatives there.

 

"But the heavy restrictions on fund raising are penalizing troops who are part of a community and actually lead scouting in the community, not just for their church boys (as the LDS church says their church should work). One fundraiser for camp?"

 

Actually most people were previously under the mistaken impression that only one fundraiser was allowed anyway. Now, a unit can do 2, one for camp, and one for equipment. As I see it, "part of the community and actually lead[ing] scouting in the community" does not translate to "multiple fundraisers." Kudos to you for providing a quality program though. If the fundraiser for camp is insufficient and a young man can't come up with the additional funds, talk to the bishop and he will be able to come up with a solution.

 

 

Gary,

"The revised Handbook 2: Administering the Church did not change the way scouting is being administered in the church."

 

I disagree. The Handbook changed from what was previously written. Substantially, in reference to the types of units for the Teacher- and Priest-age young men. The fact that the Church's Scouting Handbook is referenced means to me that it has not been updated yet, but soon will.

 

"The scouting program is still using the Churchs Scouting Handbook, Published in 1997."

 

Actually, the Church's Scouting Handbook is referenced, but not 1997. I'm sure that a corrected one will be produced soon with changes in line with the Handbook 2. The Church's Scouting Handbook (Called "Scouting") still says Exploring is the type of unit for Priest-age young men. It still says that each quorum is to have it's own scouting UNIT, something the new Handbook 2 no longer says. I'm not faulting anybody, but want to clear up the idea that since we have a scouting handbook from 1997, that the Handbook 2 can't change anything.

[NJCubScouter]

I may have missed a thread somewhere, but what new Handbook are you all talking about it? I take it from the discussion that you are not talking about the Scout Handbook, but rather an LDS-specific publication. Is that a publication for adults or Scouts?

[Gary_Miller]

NJCubScouter, its a specific publication used by the leaders of the LDS church in administrating the various programs of the church, in order two maintain continuity in the way "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS)" administrates the churches programs.

 

There are two handbooks They are usually refereed to as the handbook of instructions. Handbook 1: Stake Presidents and Bishops and Handbook 2: Administering the Church. Handbook 1 contains those matters administered by stake presidents, mission presidents, district presidents, bishops, and branch presidents. Handbook 2, titled Administering the Church, contains all of the chapters necessary to administer the Church in the bishoprics, branch presidencies, quorums, and auxiliary organizations in the wards and branches. There is also a separate handbook call "Scouting" which is used to help church leaders implement and conduct the scouting program in the LDS church.

 

The following statement from the LDS church President states why its important for church leaders to have and use these handbooks.

 

"In July this year, 2010, the membership of the Church passed 14 million. Our membership has been increasing since the Church was organized in 1830. And it will continue to grow, with thousands of units throughout the world. It would be nearly impossible to maintain the integrity of the policies, procedures, and programs of the Church without these handbooks, which are available to Church leaders everywhere in all the languages which you represent. They will be an invaluable resource to you. Theyve been read and reread, corrected and reread."(Thomas S. Monson, President of The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints)

 

The handbooks that have been refereed to in the above posts is Handbook #2 and the Scouting handbook. These handbooks are for the use by the adult leaders in administrating the programs in the church.(This message has been edited by Gary_Miller)

[NJCubScouter]

Ok thanks Gary.

[BadenP]

Gee Gary

I thought you said that the "LDS scouting program is run exactly the same as any other non LDS scouting program." Obviously that is not true since you need at least two other LDS publications/handbooks to administer your scouting program that the rest of us do not.

 

Imagine that, lol.

[Gary_Miller]

jhankins, "We'll have to agree to disagree, Gary."

 

You are not getting off that easy.

 

jhankins, "I have read the new material, and believe it will be a detriment to scouting in my area."

 

So then I guess you don't believe that the Church Leaders were inspired to make the changes they did. It's obvious that your testimony of the scouting program and the way its used in the church is weak. May I suggest getting and reading a book call "On My Honor, A Guide To Scouting In The Church. by Thane J. Packer" It can be purchased at Desert Book or from the LDS Scouting relationship web site. It give some great in site on how the Aaronic Priesthood program and the Scouting program work together in building strong young men.

 

jhankins, "You are neglecting to mention the things that changed and were announced last month at the leadership training meeting."

 

I don't think I neglected anything in fact I posted the text from the Handbook in relation to the scouting program.

 

jhankins, "The way registration works is going to change."

 

How so?

 

jhankins, "Stake troops can now come back. Wards can now choose to register with other wards and combine program should they feel the need."

 

It's not should they feel the need, it's if it,s necessary due to low numbers of boys in wards. And it's not just something Bishops can do, they must have approval of the Stake President.

 

jhankins, "But the heavy restrictions on fund raising are penalizing troops who are part of a community and actually lead scouting in the community, not just for their church boys (as the LDS church says their church should work)."

 

I don't see how this will should have any effect on units and their relationship with the community.

 

jhankins, "One fund raiser for camp?

 

So if the boy can't raise the money, the ward budget is gone, and they've had their one fund raiser, that's it? The boy can't go?"

 

I think its important to remember what the funding guidelines say, and then understand what the intent of the Budget program, which is to fund all activities out of the Budget. I have yet to have a need to conduct a fund raiser if the budget guidelines are followed. It seems that given enough notice that the boy and his parents are able to come up with the funds for summer camp, and for those families that are having trouble the funds just seem to show up.

 

From the handbook.

 

"8.13.7 Funding for Activities

 

Funding for Aaronic Priesthood activities, including Scouting activities where they are authorized by the Church, should come from the ward budget (see 13.2.8).

 

Funding for an Annual Camp or Similar Activity

 

If the ward budget does not have sufficient funds to pay for an annual extended Scout camp or similar activity for young men, leaders may ask participants to pay for part or all of it. If funds from participants are not sufficient, the bishop may authorize one group fund-raising activity annually that complies with the guidelines in 13.6.8.

 

In no case should the expenses or travel for an annual camp or similar activity be excessive. Nor should the lack of personal funds prohibit a member from participating."

 

Its been my experience that if leaders adhere to the budget guidelines their is plenty of funds available to fund all the activities.

 

The problems I have seen is leaders not putting the funds where they need to be. This is especially true at the stake level, were the guideline is for most activities to be done at the ward level.

 

What I have seen is Stake Leaders holding large amounts of money back from the wards. In order to fund such activities as Aaronic Priesthood camp, or other large activities that take large amounts of money. Or not funneling more money to wards that have a large population of youth, versus wards that may have more elderly people.

 

I have also see funds being returned back to Church Headquarters at the end of the year because wards did not use all their money. When this money could of been used to fund much need supplies or equipment by other wards.