Heroism Medal

[twh1207 10]

I'm wondering what, if any, difficulties others have had in getting a scout recognized with a Heroism Medal for saving a life and how you overcame those difficulties.

 

We had a scout rescue another scout at summer camp that could have drowned because the lifeguards did not happen to see him at the time he got into trouble.

 

We submitted our scout's name and information about what took place along with statements from the rescuer and the Aquatics Director of the camp who witnessed the actions. Unfortunately the victim and his parents do not want to cooperate by providing a victim statement and have actually become hostile.

 

Our advancement committee has taken that position that what our scout did was not heroic enough. They've refused to research the Heroism Medal and see what circumstances were for others who have received the award. Had they done this they'd find many have received the award for much less.

 

I feel that our scout definitely meets the courage, daring, skill and selflessness criteria for heroism and he certainly meets the skills aspect for the award because he acted selflessly with the right skills and courage and daring in the face of the obvious dangers that attempting to rescue a drowning person can present. If the rescuer's technique is not correct he can become a victim too or even loose his own life. While our scout hero did not have to enter the water himself there were actually two separate opportunities where our scout was in danger of being pulled into the water and drowned by the victim had he not used the proper technique.

 

Our council advancement committee wants to submit our scout for a National Certificate of Merit (a non-lifesaving award). I'm afraid that if the scout is not submitted for the Heroism Medal for lifesaving that National might just go along with the council advancement committee and this young hero may not receive the proper recognition that he deserves.

 

I've found scouts who received the award for situations that were not life threatening and even where the rescuer was supervising the swimmers and should not have even qualified. I've seen cases where the medal was awarded for not much more than talking to the victim being rescued or simply calling 9-1-1.

 

What's been your experience with the National Heroism Medal?

 

Will/can National look beyond what the council submits to grant the higher award?

 

Is this one of those things where a well crafted writeup got those scouts I mentioned above awarded though they likely did not deserve it?

 

Is there an appeal process for these awards?

 

[Kahuna 172]

It's curious you mention that the parents of the victim have become hostile. Something going on there.

 

Anyway, as I read it, sounds like your Scout is more in line for a Medal of Merit than Heroism. We had a Scout some years ago who jumped in a swimming pool and rescued a drowning baby. The Council Exec and I felt the Merit Medal was appropriate and he got it.

 

You might read through Scouts in Action for ideas.

 

http://www.boyscouttrail.com/rss/scoutsinaction.php

[twh1207 10]

My sense of what's going on is that the victim scout didn't want his Scoutmaster and his parents to know what really happened at the waterfront. In effect he lied about it and now no one wants to admit to the truth of it. Mommy and daddy are supporting their son and now they've just dug in their heels.

 

Personally if the truth were to come out I'd think that they'd be happy that a fellow scout saved their son's life.

 

[twh1207 10]

Kahuna,

 

Rescuing an infant, toddler or small child is much less dangerous to the rescuer than rescuing someone that is bigger or heavier then the rescuer as the victim in our scout's case was. The victim could easily have accidentally pulled him into the water and drowned him. But our scout had the skills from his training and possessed other useful skills for breaking the hold of a desperate swimmer.

 

The Heroism medal is more appropriate because of the significantly higher risk to the rescuer poised by the larger victim.

 

"The Heroism Award is presented to Scouts and Scouters that have saved or attempted to save a life at little or no personal risk."

 

It might also be argued that rescuing a swimmer that is as big or bigger or heavy or heavier than the rescuer presents more than "little or no personal risk."

 

By the way, I'd say that your scout should have received the Heroism Medal too.

 

[Stosh 3452]

I think much of these awards have something to do with the degree of danger to the rescuer.

 

We had a situation a few years back when an Eagle Scout pulled an elderly gentleman out of the waters who had gone through the ice while ice fishing. It wasn't that deep, but deep enough that the gentleman couldn't get out. The Scout ran out, jumped in and helped him out then was able to get himself out because he was more agile than the elderly man. He took the man into the house, dried him off and called for medical assistance.

 

The boy knew how deep it was and knew the reason the man was having trouble was because of his age. The house was nearby so the scout was not in danger of hypothermia if he acted quickly.

 

How does one define the degree of risk on the part of the Scout? The Eagle Scout marked it up as just another Good Turn.

 

These awards are totally subjective in their definitions, but don't let that deter your boys from doing what they're trained to do if the need arises.

 

I'm terrified of heights, so don't expect me to rescue any cats out of trees, but I've pulled accident victims out of burning cars. Heroics is what someone else defines it as.

 

Stosh

[Eagle92 110]

Also let's not forget that if you have some specialized training, i.e. BSA Lifeguard, then the rescues may be expected of you, i.e. water rescues are expected of BSA Lifeguards.

[Stosh 3452]

But paramedics, firemen and police are trained and yet are defined as heros (?)

 

Pretty hard to take aim at a target that keeps moving around.

 

Stosh

 

 

[Kahuna 172]

"By the way, I'd say that your scout should have received the Heroism Medal too"

 

I disagree. There was no heroism as it is usually defined in what my boy did. He jumped into a swimming pool where the water was not over his head and simply lifted out the child. He was not in any danger as he was a swimmer and as mentioned above the child weighed maybe 30 pounds.

 

The situation your Scout was in was a little riskier, but I do not define it as heroism unless it would seem to boy of his age that it was likely to cause injury or death to him.

 

I just think heroism is heroism, but that's only my opinion.

[OldGrayOwl 10]

It is not up to the troop's Advancement Committee, since it has NOTHING to do with advancement.

 

Contact your council office and bring along the paperwork and statements that you have. Let them submit the data to National.

 

OGO

[AlFansome 10]

Well, here's the form that the Council commitee would send to National...

http://www.hoac-bsa.org/ae_links/lifesaving_meritorious_action_award.pdf

 

The Council advancement committee is the suggested committee to decide these things at the council level according to page 6 of the form that I linked to above. If they don't agree with you on the level of the award (if any), then you could try to go straight to the SE and try to get a sympathetic ear, but he/she may just kick it back to the Adv. Committee. On the other hand, it's always good publicity for council to report on a Scout that saved a life. So, from a practical matter, that route may be helpful, although going around the Adv. Committee won't win you any friends there.

 

More concerning would be if you don't have a statement from the person who was rescued. According to the form, that is required (see the checklist at the end).

 

 

 

[twh1207 10]

The water on the lake was about 10 feet deep where the rescue took place. If you look at the Lifesaving MB book regarding reaching rescues it does tell you that these rescues, if not prepared for it, can result in the rescuer being pulled into the water. The reaching rescuer must keep his weight low even lying down when necessary to pull the victim up from the water. The victim in this case was at least as heavy, perhaps more so than, the rescuer.

 

Once dragged into the lake the rescuer could be temporarily disoriented long enough that the victim could climb all over him and drown him. If you think about it any type of water rescue can be dangerous depending on the size of the victim even if the rescuer does not enter the water. Indeed entering the water is the last thing the rescuer is supposed to consider.

 

========================================================

 

Consider this statements from http://www.scoutingbsa.org/programs/awards/bsa_non_rank_awards/Medals.html:

1. None of the above awards will be considered for what would be normally expected acts of behavior. The ordinary use of first aid or other skills that would be normally expected of a person who has had training in those skills would not qualify a person for recognition. However, the people use of such skills under extraordinary circumstances could meet the criteria for recognition.

 

2. Has demonstrated heroism and skill in saving or attempting to save a life at minimum or no risk to self.

 

What a bunch of mumbo jumbo. If you are trained and have a skill you do not qualify for the award yet at the same time the award is for demonstrated SKILL and heroism.

 

Heroism is overcoming fear (showing courage) in a situation to effect the rescue. If there is little or no risk there can be no fear over which courage must be demonstrated. In other words how can there be any heroism?

 

What this boils down to is that the heroism award should be discarded. It's only award-able to unskilled persons and they are typically cautioned not to attempt rescues. Basically every scout First class and above is disqualified because he has learned first aid and rescue skills.

 

But then there is the last sentence of the first paragraph, "However, the people use of such skills under extraordinary circumstances could meet the criteria for recognition." What on earth does this mean?

 

You're right it certainly is subjective. If your council's awards committee is a bunch of hard asses you are likely to only get recommended for a certificate of merit if that. But if they are a bunch of wishy-washeys you might be able to qualify for the medal of honor because that victim could present considerable risk to the rescuer.

 

=======================================================

This was my reply to our awards committee when they felt that the scout had not demonstrated sufficient heroism:

As xxxxxxx xxxxxxx points out "heroism" is defined on the application as "conduct exhibiting courage, daring, skill, and self-sacrifice."

 

Courage: a quality of spirit that enables you to face danger or pain without showing fear

 

Daring: a challenge to do something dangerous or foolhardy

 

Skill: an ability that has been acquired by training

 

Self-Sacrifice: selflessness: acting with less concern for yourself than for the success of the joint activity

 

xxxxx did exhibit all of these qualities.

 

xxxxx, without fear, faced the danger of rescuing a drowning person because the panicked swimmer had two opportunities to pull him into the lake and possibly drown him. The fist in reaching the rescue pole to the victim and the second when he had to put his hands on the victim to get him under control at dockside. This involved lifting the victim up from the water high enough to get his arms on the dock and pinned down a distance of about 18 inches above the water. In doing this, if done improperly, xxxxx could have been pulled into the water and drowned by the victim.

 

It took daring to to expose himself to the above danger of rescuing a drowning person.

 

xxxxx obviously has the skill.

 

xxxxx selflessly acted with no thought but of the victim and the need to rescue him.

 

Personally I feel that selflessness is the most important quality. It is what initiates the action. The rescuer is only thinking of the victim's well being. He does not even have time to consider fear or courage. A well learned skill comes back automatically in a time of need. He just automatically acts with all his skills to effect an outcome, in this case saving a life.

 

[twh1207 10]

National really needs to fix this and somehow eliminate much of the subjectivity.

 

Honestly I'm not sure how they can do that because these qualities are certainly hard to measure.

 

Perhaps the two awards below Heroism should not be allowed for life saving situations but rather significant contributions to Scouting other than saving a life. Then the minimum award for saving a life would be the Heroism award and go up from there based on the level of risk to the rescuer.

 

Any person who saves a life is a hero. Or he most likely would be to the rescued person if not the awards committee. This would confine the awards committees subjectivity to the Heroism and above levels for lifesaving.

 

 

 

[CA_Scouter 11]

IMHO - The actions as described are certainly worthy of a National Certificate of Merit.

 

Forgive me, I'm thinking that the victim's family also feels the same way and based on what I read in your post you are pushing for more than anyone is willing to give and you are upset that they aren't in agreement with you.

 

This statement also raises a flag: "In effect he lied about it and now no one wants to admit to the truth of it". So its a conspiracy against you now?

 

It also kinda reads like you are pushing for an award for your son. Mebbe I'm wrong though.

[twh1207 10]

No conspiracy. Please know that the statement provided by the witness, who is considered very reliable because he is the Aquatics Director, is in agreement with the rescuer statement.

 

Do you think the witness wants to put his job and reputation at rick by lying or do you think it more likely the victim scout was embarrassed by having to be rescued and did not report the situation as accurately as the rescuer and the witness.

 

I think the victim's vanity got the better of him. It would not be too cool for his scoutmaster, parents and fellow scouts to know that he pushed himself too hard and needed to be rescued. As I said it's no conspiracy at all. It's simply the word of two persons against the one.

 

The victim's parents and scoutmaster did not witness the action and can only support the victim's statement because they trust him. After all a scout is supposed to be trustworthy. Do you think the rescuer and the Aquatics Director less trustworthy?

 

[ScoutNut 147]

The decision is out of your hands. Actually it never was in your hands. Your council is processing the paperwork, and recommending that National recognize this Scout for what he did. I think that is wonderful.

 

Your attitude could very well spoil what should be a great moment for this Scout. Especially if any publicity surrounding this focuses more on your statements about the victim being a liar, than on the wonderful thing the Scout did.

 

Have you by any chance already told the boy that he will be receiving, or deserves to receive, the Heroism Medal?

 

Leave the final decision to the National Court of Honor, where it belongs.

 

BTW - I would not use quotes from non-BSA websites to try to prove your points to your council. The correct quote from the BSA application is definitely not mumbo jumbo. It basically states that you can not get a medal for simply doing what you are trained to do for your job or your responsibility as a leader. A lifeguard would not be eligible for preforming his job and saving a life.