W2 age boys in Scouts

[SM214 10]

As Scoutmaster I was asked to attend the recent Cub Scout recruiting night, no big deal, thought I'd be asked to talk about the Boy Scout program compared to Cubs. NOPE...I ended up with 5 boys in 5th grade all 10yrs old(Web2 group) This was on the order of the DE. Put them in Boy Scouts instead of 6months of Web2 before cross over. Personally, my mantra is "play with the hand you are dealt" I've got 5 boys who know nothing, so the SPL, ASPL, TG, JASM, ASM and myself have all set a date to hold a Tenderfoot Campout and start getting the boys up to speed ( none have had any Cub Scouting at all)

Now, the W2 Den Leader, my Committee Chair and a Committee Member (who has 2 son in scouts, one a W2, the other a Life Scout) are not happy in the least bit. They feel the boys would be better served being in the W2 program even if only for 6months, and its not fair to the W2s who have worked hard on AOL, resident camps and the like to have boys in their class just join and be Boy Scouts with no prior knowledge what so ever of the Program, and they lack the maturity level to be in the Bigs ( so to speak)

Or will it be more unfair to these new scouts to be sent to W2 after being on one outing and attending the Districts Fall Camporee (by the time the wheels get turning on possibly moving them down to W2) where they will be for 5-6 months and then back up to Boy Scouts?

I again state for the record, I don't care either way, I work with what I've got. So please turn the flamethrowers on our DE, it was his decision. But how in Hades do I deal with this wonderful turn of events?

I see and agree with both views, Keep 'em or Send 'em, if we send them we could lose them. and the 2 dads who applied to be new ASMs( i know i'd be PO'd) keep 'em and we have our work cut out for us, and hard feelings from various groups in the Troop.

[John-in-KC 311]

Why is your DE telling you to do this? Are you a Scoutreach unit?

 

If the kids aren't ready to move up, don't move them up. Are there not age and grade requirements for joining? (duh, yes) Do the kids meet them chronologically? What about maturity?

[SM214 10]

we are a Traditional unit, not Scoutreach, The only thing I can think of is the limited time they would have in W2 who are scheduled to croass over in March. other than that I have no clue in the DE's decision.

[Lisabob 13]

Our district membership team, unit commissioners, and DE(s) have always encouraged parents of boys who were brand new to scouting as 5th graders to consider joining boy scouts straight away, rather than joining cubs for a few months. The primary reason is that by the time they figure out what cub scouting is about, they'll be moving on to boy scouting. Better to just get them established in boy scouts.

 

However, that depends on a number of factors, including the boys' eligibility to join boy scouts. Current joining rules are that a boy must be 11 years old, OR be 10 AND either done with 5th grade or 10 AND have Arrow of Light.

 

So a bunch of 10 year olds with no scouting experience who are just starting 5th grade do not meet the joining requirements set out by national. It might be worth having a friendly chat with the DE to clarify how s/he proposes to handle this. I know some instances where this rule is overlooked, but the rule is still the rule.

 

The other thing to consider is the boys' maturity level. Some boys are ready at the start of 5th grade for boy scouting. Some are really not, and they do have the option of staying in cub scouting not just for 6 months, but for the full year if they wanted to. This should be discussed and decided on an individual basis, with full input from the parents, the cubmaster, and the scoutmaster. It is not a group decision and the DE cannot force it one way or the other, if the parents want something different.

 

The one thing I would strongly advise you against doing, is to compare these brand new scouts to the existing cub scouts who "did their time." Cub scouting is NOT NOT NOT NOT a pre-requisite to boy scouting. It is a separate program with its own culture and own merits. Yes, boys with cub experience are probably better socialized into the scouting ethic than those who are brand new to scouting, but there's a huge difference between a troop and a pack, both for boys and their parents. And anyway, a good troop program ought to be ready to handle new boys with no scouting experience. Teach them the skills they need and you'll be fine.

[JerseyScout 10]

Maybe its because I work with kids that age (10), or maybe its because I've seen how alot of troops are having problems with falling recruitment numbers (my troop, thankfully, is having our best recruitment year in a decade), but five new kids are a blessing. Run with it, with five of them together, they should catch up just fine. The good thing about age is its always going up.(This message has been edited by JerseyScout)

[John-in-KC 311]

Best solutions I know for falling Boy Scout membership are:

 

- Help tend the seed corn. That means deploying Den Chiefs to Cub Dens, and sending an ASM to provide support to both the Den Chiefs and to collect Pack needs from the Troop (of course, the Pack needs to help the Troop as well, now and again).

 

- Leverage the Patrol Method to support Outdoors Method, and get the kids camping often! "If you give the youth great program, they will come" - H Roe Bartle

[eghiglie 10]

Joining a Troop can be done by either

 

having completed the fifth grade

being 11 years old

or be 10 1/2 and have earned Arrow of Light

 

If they meet the requirements have them join a Troop.

 

In our area its very easy for kids to be left back one year in school because if they fail the reading test that year.

[ScoutNut 147]

Keep in mind that no matter what your DE says, these boys are NOT registered members of your Troop. If they are registered at all, they are registered as Cub Scouts.

 

Be very careful that these boys not be awarded ANY Boy Scout level awards until they are officially members of the Troop. It could very well mess them up if/when they go for Eagle.

 

They can not be registered in your Troop until 1) they turn 11 years old, or 2) they finish 5th grade.

 

 

[Lisabob 13]

Folks, again, please look at the joining requirement. A boy who is 10 years old can join a troop if he has earned his arrow of light.

 

See the BSA website to read the requirement:

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts.aspx

 

However, in this case, that's not the situation since these boys are new to scouting. If they are not 11 years old, they are not currently eligible to join boy scouts.

[scoutldr 732]

First of all, the DE can't "order" a unit to do anything. (this makes my blood boil). The decision of which unit to join is up to the parents and the CO/Leaders of the unit. I agree with the above...if they are 11, sign them up. If they are not, then ScoutNet won't accept their registration anyway (except as Cubs). Tell them you'll see them on their 11th birthday.

[shortridge 184]

Your DE is wrong. He or she can't "order" anything of this nature. Sounds to me like he or she is low on Boy Scout recruitment numbers, and wants to bump them up before the end of the calendar year.

 

SM214 wrote: "and its not fair to the W2s who have worked hard on AOL, resident camps and the like to have boys in their class just join and be Boy Scouts with no prior knowledge what so ever of the Program, and they lack the maturity level to be in the Bigs ( so to speak)"

 

Echoing Lisabob, this shouldn't be an issue. Cub Scouting experience and prior knowledge are not prerequisites to joining Boy Scouts. "It's not fair to the other kids" shouldn't enter into this equation. The maturity level shouldn't be an issue, either - the joining requirements are crystal-clear, and these Webelos simply aren't eligible yet until they turn 11.

 

I feel sorry for you and your troop - no matter how this works out, it's going to be bad. Either the DE or the parents are going to be angry and upset.

[Buffalo Skipper 13]

To keep them or send them--that is the question.

 

I say do both. Get one of your ASMs or Committee members (preferably with Webelos expereince) to sign up with the pack as their Webelos Den Leader. Let them meet once a week an hour or so before the Troop meeting (where the troop meets). Have one of your older scouts be the Den Chief.

 

Earning the Webelos takes 3 months and the AOL an addotonal 3 months. Keeping these boys together is important, but though it takes some effort, earning the AOL and crossing in 6 months (March) is a realistic order, if you are organized.

 

Take advantage of the situation, but play by the rules. What a windfall!

[scoutldr 732]

Buffalo...I like it! Win-Win!

[ScoutNut 147]

>>"Folks, again, please look at the joining requirement. A boy who is 10 years old can join a troop if he has earned his arrow of light.">"So please turn the flamethrowers on our DE, it was his decision."

[meschen 24]

Buffalo, I like your solution. I think pushing the Scouts back down to the Pack level at this point will cause retention issues.

 

One thing SM214 should do quickly is reach an agreement with the parents and the wayward DE is if these Scouts will be attending the Troop's weekend camp-outs under Boy Scout rules or if they will be adhering to the Cub Scout rules which require a parent or guardian to be present. I know those rules are interpreted differently by different units and districts, but I could see that as a potential sticking point early on. Whatever you agree to, put it in writing with the DE and include the council's Scout Executive on the correspondence.

 

I would also get in touch with all of the aggrieved parties you mentioned and let them know this is the best way you can think of to make lemonade out of the lemons your DE dealt you. Apologize and them move on. I think it is most important to reach out to the W2 DL and try an incorporate more closely than you typically would so they dont feel slighted invite them along to Campouts your new Webelos Den is attending and invite them to a few extra Troop meetings. Also remind them that because you are taking in these 5 Scouts, the existing Webelos II Den does not need to take them in and go over the same ground (such as Citizenship and Fitness), which they presumably covered last year.