Have you ever...

[ManyHats 10]

filed a formal complaint on a volunteer at a council run event?

If so why and what was the outcome?

[Beavah 205]

Yah, not sure what yeh mean by a formal complaint, eh?

 

Who would you file it with?

 

Can't say as I know of a "formal complaint" mechanism in most districts or councils.

 

Do yeh mean a formal complaint to law enforcement?

 

B

 

[SR540Beaver 116]

Beav,

 

Obviously you would file a complaint with a council professional if you had an issue with a volunteer at a "council run event". Kind of like youth protection. I know of a situation at a council run event where an adult volunteer on staff had his membership revoked because of his behavior......and it had nothing to do with youth.

[ManyHats 10]

Yeah - At our council a formal complaint would be filling out a form about a problem that took place at a council run event. We had a range official that yelled at our pack then our CM when he stepped in. He also yelled at an individual scout. The official is CM for a Pack that was also at this event. It was bad enough parents from the official's Pack apologized for the official's behavior.

[DeanRx 69]

Guess I'll ask the next logical question...

 

WHY did the rangemaster yell? What was the context of the outburst? While I agree it is not the most appropriate way to handle a situation, it begs the question because it happened on a range.

 

Was a cub from your pack in violation of a range safety rule? If so, not the best reaction, but the rangemaster is responsible for EVERYONE and EVERYTHING that happens on their range.

 

What if a cub picked up a firearm and pointed the muzzle towards the group of assembled scouts? As a by-stander, I'd be inclined to "yell" about that and I wouldn't even be the party in charge.

 

There are very few instances in which cubs engage in activity that is very cut and dried, "Do as I say, or you are not participating. No second chance - you break this rule, you're out of the activity." A live fire range (even w/ just BB-guns or recurve archery) is one of those few times.

 

Not that I agree that yelling is the best remedy.

 

However, I would need to reserve judgement until I know more details surrounding the incident.

 

As for the CM of the your pack - if he/she is on the range, they need to support the rangemaster's decision and authority. Even if they disagree with it at the time. The firing line is not the place to get into a "peter measuring contest" and likely would just serve to escalate the situation.

 

Like I said - not trying to defend the actions, but we need to know context. If a scout had shot another scout on the range, then there would be plenty of "formal complaints" about how the rangemaster lost command and control of the range. So, a few bruised feelings are not that big of a deal in the grand scheme.

[ScoutNut 147]

My thoughts exactly.

 

Usually, the only "bad" feedback we get at Cub Scout Summer Camp is that the Range Officers were to "mean".

 

Parents just can not understand why the RO yelled when they were just trying to get a photo of their son while he was shooting - from in front of him. They can not understand why it was such a big problem that their son ran out to collect his arrows before everyone else was finished shooting. After all he only wanted to get in a few more shots. They get extremely upset that their son was evicted from the range and never got a chance to shoot. After all, he was ONLY PLAYING when he pointed the gun/arrow at his friends, and threatened to shoot them!

 

Bad Range Officer!

 

 

(edited to add that YES - ALL of the above incidents have happened)(This message has been edited by ScoutNut)

[SSScout 1615]

 

Paraphrase::

 

"But you don't understand, he has asperger's"

"Yes ma'am, I do understand. My brother lives in a group home for emotionally challenged. And do you remember? I went over all the safety rules for the range. I remember you sitting in the back there with the other Den Walkers. I asked the Cubs if they thought I was strict, and all of'em including your son, said yes! And when I asked them if they thought I had reason to be strict, they all said yes. "

"But Johan is different..."

"I'm sure he is but I'd really like to avoid having to ask YOU to explain to another parent WHY Johan shot an arrow into their Cub's foot. And I'd like to avoid having to fill out 3 hours of insurance reports AND having to shut down the range for the other boys, too. Have I helped you to understand my position?"

 

Motto Be clear, Be strict, Be glad you were.

 

KiS MiF YiS

[BuffaloSR793 10]

I agree with the most of the replys. Having done some time as a Rangemaster, the most important thing is saftey.

 

I would like to hear the rest of the story here.

[ManyHats 10]

Range officer was not loud enough for the entire group to hear. When part of the group had not tucked their shirts in and rolled their sleeves he jumped on the group for not listening. CM explained nicely that the group was not able to hear the instructions.

Range officer found a rubber stop from the cable slide. He went to the line and the first bow he saw without it he yelled at the kid for grabbing the bow by the strings. The kid that he yelled at had carried the bow by the limb and not the strings. Then he saw 2-3 other bows that were missing that same piece. Then he jerked on a bow to show what not to do and pulled the cable slide off.

If he had yelled at any kid for safety we would back him 100%.

[ManyHats 10]

CC has now taken it up with the District Commiss

[fleetfootedfox 10]

Yeah, you put somebody in a position of authority and sometimes it goes to their head. However, if the CM couldn't hear the instructions, that would be the time to tell the person he needs to speak up, not after there's an issue.

 

As they say, there are two sides to every story. I'd like to hear the other side.

[ManyHats 10]

The bigger issue IMO is the Range Officier jumping on one single scout and basically calling him a liar.

 

RO - Why did you do that?

Scout - I didn't.

RO - Yes you did I saw you.

 

He either saw another scout and confused them or assumed he did it since the piece was off the bow. We were the last group to go through that day, so you can't assume anything.

[ScoutNut 147]

At just about every council run activity I have ever been at there has been an evaluation sheet for the participants to fill out.

 

Did your CM, or anyone there from your Pack, fill out an evaluation and mention the problem with the RO?

 

If there was no evaluation (or in addition to) did anyone there from your Pack talk to the Camp Director, or the person running the event, about the RO?

 

At the time of the event, did anyone from your Pack talk to anyone working at the event (other than the RO) about their problems with the RO?

 

You said your council has a form to fill out if there is a complaint. Have the people who were at this event fillout and turned in this form?

 

Why are you doing all of this days/weeks after the event?

 

Was your CC at the council event in question? Why isn't your CM, who was there, involved in contacting the DC?

 

 

 

[ManyHats 10]

It was the last event after a long day and CM was responsible for getting several boys home. CM discussed all that took place with CC. CM was nervous about taking it up with the council, since he only has 3 years experience and RO has 50. Who do you think council will side with... someone on the board or CM from small town. Also a week went by due to needing to get stories from everyone who saw the event. CC was more concerned about the incident with the scout. CM did not see/hear all that took place with the scout.