Not my job...

[ASM59 10]

Hello,

 

In the thread Very Frustrated (http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=200534) there seemed to be much criticism of the paperwork not being properly handled. The CC was not doing their job either due to neglect or lack of training according to some. While this may be true, the question is, If the CC is not doing the job and the Cub Master is willing, why not let the Cub Master take the paperwork to council?

 

I had a similar case in the Troop a couple of years back where I, as an ASM, was doing committee jobs such as fundraiser organization and outings organization. I was also doing the job of the Scoutmaster who was absent from every meeting and outing. I was trying my best to keep the Troop alive until someone was available to step up to the plate to help. Unfortunately, it did become too much and the inevitable happened; I moved to another Troop and the old Troop died.

 

So, the question on the table is:

Is it OK for the CM (or in my case the ASM) to take on some responsibilities in the event that there is no one else able or willing to do it?

Or, is this only enabling the dysfunction to continue?

 

ASM59

 

[FScouter 24]

I think you answered the question and provided a good example.

[red feather 10]

Ditto, the scouts come first.

 

yis

Red Feather

[kbandit 10]

The scouts must come first. Isn't that why we do what we do.

 

My situation is hubby SM (not a paper person) and CC (not a paper person)so I as committee/secretary/treasurer/advancement keeps up with the paperwork that needs to be taken care of. Hubby and I have more free time (LOL) than CC and live closer to scout shop so we are the ones running there. Not a big deal. This works for our troop.

 

Hubby does help when I ask. I also took care of the logistics of getting to and from summer camp 3 1/2 hrs away.

 

I look forward to the approx 5 weeks between summer camp and getting started back up in the fall. Not a whole lot of paperwork other than summer camp wrap up.

 

Week before start up scouts will have up to date sheets from Troopmaster to know where they are in advancement.

 

It is all about the scouts and doing the best we can for them. If we waited on our CC to take paperwork to council well..... SM taking it works for us. CC does a great job in other aspects and loves working with the scouts on skills and outdoor activities. More hands on than paperwork.

 

kbandit

 

[ScoutNut 147]

I believe the point in the other thread was that the CM took 6 months to get the application for CC to council, and in that time no one (including the unit itself it seems) would acknowledge that this person was the registered CC.

 

A CM has no approval on any adult application. The approvals come from the CC, COR &/or IH.

 

It seemed that the application was given to the CM simply because the CM was seen as the "head" of the Pack and the one who would normally get any and all applications. The CM did no one any favors in this instance.

[ASM59 10]

Yes, I understand that in the previous post there was not only an expectation that the incorrect person would handle the paperwork, but also a failure by that person to come through. In this thread, I wanted to ask the question that I did in general to get an idea of how others view doing things that are "not my job".

 

Looking at my example above, at the time, I was doing my best to keep the Troop alive (for the Scouts). However, the more I did, the less likely I was ever going to get someone else to do what I was doing. It became expected that I'd do it, so nobody else felt the responsibility to do it. It became a snowball rolling down a long hill and the responsibilities kept piling on until I reached a breaking point. Like I said, at the time I felt like I was doing what I needed to be doing for the boys and for the Troop. In retrospect, I was only enabling people to not do their job. Helping someone out once or twice is OK, but when doing it for them becomes routine there's a problem.

 

Kbandit,

It sounds like your unit may want to switch some roles. If your CC likes to work with the boys and comes to meetings and outings, it sounds more like an ASM role. If you dont mind taking care of the paperwork and such, perhaps you could take on the CC position. Just a thought But of course this is the kind of information I was looking for...

 

ASM59

 

[packsaddle 753]

Been there, done that. I think this is OK as a 'stop-gap' measure only. If, in the meantime, the CO and committee return to doing 'their jobs' then it is good to keep things alive during a period of transition. However, this is ultimately an unsustainable situation and the unit will not survive, or if it does, it will be not be as good for the boys as it could be with the program delivered properly.

[highcountry 13]

This is the point I have reached at this time as well. I have notified the troop that I am taking the summer off and have sent an email to the adult volunteers what loose ends ae open, the schedule, roster and all kinds of other attachments. I have gotten calls and I am responding with "I am too busy right now"....it works for so many of them, now it's my turn. I want the troop to survive and succeed but others have to start to do their jobs and not wait for me to pick up the slack. As someone notes, teh longer the SM keeps puting his fingers in all the holes in the dike, the longer he is enabling others to sit back and do little to nothing. I have made dramatic changes in teh troop and implemented alot in the way of schedule, program, organization, boy led etc. It is in strong enough shape to last for a while, now it's time to basically force others to start to step up or watch things not happen.

 

We have been without a functional secretary for over a year, myself and the treasurer are trying to pick up the slack, I have 9 ASM's but only 2 really show up much and have a good idea of what the program is about or contribute significntl to the troop and activities. Fortunately the CC and Treasurer perform as ASM's and help out a great deal.

 

One thing we did recently was to intitute some new rules, though shalt be signed up for an activity no later than 2 weeks prior and must have funds, class one and permission slip in by that time or no go. We also announced that kids scouts had to make theri own ride arrangements as the adult leaders trying to be "ride Arrangers" was one of the major "no win" headaches. My wife had to take a Friday off work recently as one of the parents slated to drive kids back became a problem so she filled in (Scoutmaster and his family to fill in the gaps once again).

 

I don't know if the sink or swim method is going to get anyone to start doing their job or to step up and help but I need the break and people in the troop are going to see how much was being done for them that I shouldn't have had to be doing and will not do for them when I come back this fall.

 

[ASM59 10]

highcountry,

 

I understand your frustration, hopefully in your case others will realize that they need to step up and do their jobs. If not, hopefully there is another Troop in your area for you (and your son, I assume) to go to.

 

It's interesting to hear of others who have had to do the same thing to try to keep a unit going. I wonder if there is anything that the local Council or BSA national could come up with to help? Like a video that could be shared with parents that would perhaps help to motivate them to help, or at the very least accurately describes the time that the volunteers put in to make a functioning Troop work; and none of that 1 hour per week business. :-)

 

ASM59

[highcountry 13]

We have tried to stress at PLC's the job duties of the positions, coach them along the way, hand out job descriptions etc. Next PLC is going to be 85% on leadership, responsibility, knowing and doing one's job. Most all the kids in my troop have the idea of getting back home to their xbox on their minds though. The parents don't take much of a stand so when I (the SM) tries to, I am seen as demanding and unfair vs the parents that roll over and let the kids do what they want without consequence. I have several who will be getting advance warning that tehy will not pass a SM review if they don't start to do the job and may loose their POR by the end of summer unless they try to perform.

 

I have tried to get adult volunteers to get training with little to no success, I have tried to recruit dependable people but have had to few, I even wrote job descriptions for some positions to no avail.

 

We created a troop guide book and a frequently asked question sheet to help parents and scouts understand teh process, this is material covere in the handbook and related material but no one can be bothered to read it so we tried to amke it easy for them. We are now planning a parent meeting to walk them through the program and relate it to teh FAQ sheet and guidebook so maybe they begin to understand.

 

We are formatting our program more so the kids can reamin on autopilot but still try to develop more boy run, patrol method. They know the first troop meeting of teh month is campout planning. They know they can get a campout planning packet out of lockup which will help guide them through the complete planning process. Once we get them set up on doing this I hope we can develop more leadership on teh olders scouts helping the young ones along and running the campouts.

 

My wife works with an ASM from another troop. To prevent frustration and burnout, his troop has reverted to having the active dult leaders realize when tey are doing too much for others and sit back and watch things fail. He says they end up with activites cancelled more than half the time.

 

I am taking the break and will be back in the fall but I will not be putting the energy and time into it I once did. I am going to increase focus on teaching and developing leadership and take a more cavalier attitude on how much get sfund raised or how many activities get cancelled, I definitely will stop spending large amounts of time jumping through hoops covering bases ignored by others so things keep happening.

 

My oldedst is 15 and Life, now working on eagle, my youngest Star and soon to be life, both should be eagle by end of Spring 2009 at which point I will be done.

 

I will leave a troop far better equiped, with larger membership more organized and more boy led than when I arrived. I am going to try and enjoy my final year as SM and not be burned out like I have become.

 

Seeing the lax attitude of parents and scouts, me first, lazy, unaccountable, path of least resistance in Society today I find it terribly hard to run an effective program. I see parents so used to smoothing out the bumps for their kids, taking the easy path and considering my takling positions of hard work, consequences and responsibility as being too hard nosed I wonder how much longer BSA can fight overwhelming odds. It is in a word...Frustrating.

[ASM915 90]

highcountry,

Didn't know we were in the same Troop.

We have had the same problems the last few years. The committee does a good job. The problem has been with the parents and last two SM's.

 

The present SM is to sports oriented. If the team has uniforms, they will wear them. If there is a coach training, he's there. Talk to him about making the Scouts wear their uniform and enforcing it, or get him to leader training, haven't seen it in a year and a half. Most camp-outs, onenighters due to sports conflict. The thing I love is that his own thirteen year old Scout is standing up to him telling him that he the son plans on toning down the sports because he plans on being more involved in Scouts.

 

When the SM before this one started missing meetings and dropped off the dace of the earth, one of the CM's, my son, a brand new ASM and myself held things together. Unfortunately I was unable to become SM at that time. When the position opens again, hopefully my son or myself will be in a position to step up.

 

Parents: sports, sports, sports.

[John-in-KC 311]

I've observed volunteer burn-out. It's not pretty.

 

Too much of a good thing becomes not a good thing.

 

Our service in Scouting is not the 50 meter dash ... it's akin to a trek at Philmont. Longer time, less energy in the moment, except on occasion.

 

I'd hope all will pick up the slack when there's a need ... but when a volunteer is treated by the parents whose kid he supports as a free babysitter, that's a danger signal: It's time to re-assess, critically, participation in that particular unit.

 

In taking stock, consult with friends, the UC, other unit leaders, and the COR.

 

Let us know how you decide...