Uniform Not Required

[Gold Winger]

Pappy,

 

I am a professional picker of nits. If there is a nit anywhere within 100 yards, I'll find it and pick it. In fact, in many states, I am required by statue to pick all possible nits. :-)

[Hiromi]

RangerT wrote:

"It sounds like Pappy has created a pre Vatican II Catholic Ranger troop using only what he wants to from the methods of the BSA"

 

What is this pre-Vatican II Ranger Troop you write of? I never heard of it.

 

Pappy

[Slouchhat]

Today a shipment of Campaign Hats came in from the hatmaker for distribution to the kids tomorrow evening at the troopnight.

My two children who are Beaver and Wold Cub in our troop cried: "Mountie hats!"

There you have it.

 

best regards,

Volker

 

PS: I'm excited to see that although you all belong to the same organisation, basically everybody seems to be doing things his own way.

To be honest, I like that.

[Gold Winger]

Nit picking time again :-)

 

The Canadian/British version of the Smokey/Mountie hat differs from the American version in the placement of the dents.

 

If your nose is North, the American version has the dents at NE, SE, SW, and NW. The Brit version has them at N,E,S,W.

 

http://www.mountieshop.com/images/Mountie_Stetson-Lg.jpg

 

http://www.cowboyhatstore.com/images_product/959.jpg

 

(This message has been edited by Gold Winger)

[Ohio_Scouter]

GW,

 

Just which statues require you to pick these nits? Sorry, couldn't resist .

[Bob White]

Neither of you have explained what you think the Adult Association Method is, our what leads you to believe that it is the only Method required by the BSA. One of you seems to suggest that it is required because you have to have adults on the charter or adults at meetings and neither is true.

 

I admitted to not understanding either of you, and I would appreciate some more info. What is it aboy the adult association Method that you believe makes it required?

[Gold Winger]

Bob, imagine a box. You're inside that box. Now, think about what could happen outside that box.

 

A Scout unit cannot exist without an SM and a committee. Right? Even if those boys never see the adults and pay their fees by paypal and communicate by text message and email, that is still associating with adults. Very basic but there you have it.

 

You may now return to thinking inside of the box.

[evmori]

That was hard to read! I think I understand what you are asking, Bob.

 

If there are no adults, there can be not unit, correct? So to be member of a BSA unit, on has to associate with adults. One does not need a uniform or be in a patrol or venture into the outdoors or advance. But without adults, there is no unit.

 

Adult Association - Boys learn from the examples set by their adult leaders. Troop leadership may be male or female, and association with adults of high character is encouraged at this stage of a young man's development.

 

And my name is Ed and the other poster you referred to, Bob, was GW. You can use my name. I don't care. I don't think GW does either.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[AvidSM]

Of course the BSA wants scouts to wear uniforms - its the most obvious and outward sign of what we are. It just doesn't want a lack of money to prevent a scout from joining - which would be the case if uniforms were manditory. Further along in second paragraph of page 152 of the SM Handbook, where is states uniforms are not required, the issue of money is addressed and how a scout can "take on projects and find part-time jobs..." to pay for his uniform.

 

The other methods are, by default, required since nowhere is it written that they are not. You can argue about whether you choose to apply them or not. Throw them all out and still call yourself a boy scout troop? For what pupose?

 

If you had any understanding of why boy scouting exists you whould know that the methods are all interconnected and all needed. And, for those with this understanding, I'll ask and answer questions.

 

 

[Hiromi]

The Boy Scout Handbook pretty much implies uniform wearing, outdoor activities, and the forming of Patrols. It doesn't imply that these are suggestions but that this is scouting. It is the boy's number one guide, besides the older scout's and their Troop traditions (if there are any) , the scoutmaster's, the scouts parent's and their expectations of what scouting ought to be, and the CO.

 

So all this talk about a minimalized scouting seems pretty contrived when on the face of it BSA makes it pretty darned clear what boy scouting is. And this is Pappy writing here - not Bob White.

 

There is a lady in our area that goes around garage sales and flea markets picking up BSA uniforms and stripping them of patches. She sells them for about $5. You can find cheap uniforms. And you usually can find FOS willing to chip in for a uniform scholarship budget.

 

I don't buy the economics argument at all. Kids get their paws on all sorts of expensive items like video games and tennis shoes and skate boards.

 

I think the uniforming thing is easier when the boys learn early on in cub scouting that the uniform is the package that scouting comes in -period. (Whether this is technically true or not).

 

There is a big reason why the Marines have such magnificent dress uniforms - that uniform represents a glorious tradition and it is a symbol of pride. A marine is always a marine- but the uniform is something very special and it is their most formal expression in peace-time.

 

The idea of esprit de corps is important and goes back to the founding of scouting. Kids look so terrible today in their civilian clothes and long hair. What's wrong with cleaning them up a bit and have them wear a uniform? It also shows their brotherhood to other scouts and to scouts from the one hundred year tradition.

 

The dirty little secret in scouting that we don't want to mention is that many boys are embarrassed by being in scouting, and do not want their peers to see them in the uniform.

 

This is not good. But maybe pride has to be earned. At least a Marine might think so.

 

Pappy

(This message has been edited by Pappy)(This message has been edited by Pappy)

[Bob White]

Ed,

 

Boys learn a great deal by watching how adults conduct themselves. Scout leaders can be positive role models for members of their troops. In many cases a scoutmaster who is willing to listen to boys, encourage them, and take a sincere interest in them can make a profound difference in their lives.

 

I would like you to campare that explanation with. "To charter a BSA unit, there needs to be a minimum number of adults signed up as leaders. There also needs to be minimum number of boys. Adult Association has to happen!"

 

And tell me what is the biggest difference between the two? Adult association does not happen simply because adults and youth are in the same room. Nor are they about efforts of the youth to interact with adults. Adult association is about adults associated with the unit taking real interest in each individual Scout.

 

Is it required? No more than any other Method. Is it vital in order to deliver a quality scouting program? No less than any other Method.

 

No Method is "required", yet no Method can be left out, and still have a quality Scouting program.

 

 

 

[Hiromi]

Bob wrote...."Is it required? No more than any other Method. Is it vital in order to deliver a quality scouting program? No less than any other Method. No Method is "required", yet no Method can be left out, and still have a quality Scouting program."

 

Says YOU Bob. But scouting by the book is NOT infallible.

 

I have seen things done by the numbers and the program seemed to be lacking energy, spirit, and a reason for being (ANd I bet you have too.).

 

It takes inspiration and a certain talent to be an effective leader - whether it is in the United States Army, the Police Department, a Hospital Administrator, or a Scoutmaster. I think it is a lot like teaching- either you have got the gift or you don't. All the methods and practices of teaching classes wont change that essential fact.

 

Scouting methodology is not a guarantee of success. And a unit can deliver a quality experience for the boy even if certain elements are lacking.----The ends of scouting can justify means that may or may not be by the numbers.

 

Says Pappy.

 

Pappy

 

 

 

[Bob White]

How are you so sure of the Papy. By your own admission you have never lead a program that used the scouting methods. You say what you have done is not working, so how do you know that followingthe program wouldn't.

 

The BSA has almost a 100 years of experience that says it does, and you have between 3 and 5 years of experience NOT using the program that says it doesn't work. Which do you feel has the greater credibility on this issue?

 

Me, I pick the folks with the 100 years of experience.

[Beavah]

Yah, this thread is so entertainin'!

 

But as yeh all keep makin' references to the Handbook, I'm left wonderin'...

 

Who said the Handbook is Required?

 

Beavah

 

[Gold Winger]

"Goldwing writes: A Scout unit cannot exist without an SM and a committee. Right?"

 

Bob said," Wrong actually, apparently you are unaware of the Lone Scout program."

 

Last time that I checked, a Lone Scout is just that. A Lone Scout and not a unit. Even then, it is hard to avoid associating with an adult. Since you seem confused about the program, I offer the following from BSA's web site:

 

"Every boy registering as a Lone Scout must have an adult, 21 years or older, who meets adult membership requirements and agrees to serve as the boy's Lone Scout friend and counselor."