CNYScouter 46 Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 It seems that I have heard this from too many leaders lately: Its not our program its the kids today just dont want to go camping after cancel a trip do to no interest in the Scouts attending even though the trip was picked, planned and run by the leaders with no input from the scouts. Its not our program its the kids today just dont want to be scouts when they quit after one year due to all the trips being done are geared towards older scouts and adults even though the trips are picked, planned and run by the leaders with no input from the scouts. Its not our program its the kids today just dont want to be leaders even though they dont use the patrol method and do everything for them. Its not our program its the kids today just dont stay in Scouting that long anymore even though their outdoor program offers nothing for them. Its not our program its the kids today just dont want to joining Scouting anymore when they cant get new kids to join even though they are not linked to a cub pack and have no recruiting effort I didnt hear these exact words in all cases but I did hear something very similar from most of the Troops I visited. This basically why I choose to switch troops and passed over most of the troops in my area. They only time I didnt here this was from Leaders in Troops that were following the program. Link to post Share on other sites
Beavah 205 Posted June 24, 2005 Share Posted June 24, 2005 I had a hard time understanding CNY'S message when I read it the first two times. Every time he said "leader" I thought of a boy, so I couldn't figure out how the trip could be run by the leaders (boys) with no input from the scouts. LOL. There's no easy way to train people out of doing things for/to their kids. There's no easy way to have them read a book and understand how to talk with kids as peers, and encourage them to make mistakes (because that shows they have ownership and are trying). There's no good way to explain to people with limited outdoor skills how to run a creative, safe, experiential outdoor program. It's not our program, or the kids. It's the adults today. Link to post Share on other sites
Oak Tree 15 Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 "It's not the program, it's the adults." But it may be that if the great majority of adults aren't following the program, there just might be some reason for that. But that would seem to lead back to the Loosey-Goosey thread. Oak Tree Link to post Share on other sites
Beavah 205 Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 "It may be that if the great majority of adults aren't following the program, there just might be some reason for that." There's a great guy on our committee who just got his 50-year pin a few years back. He remembers scouting when he was a boy. Them thar scouts really used boy leadership and patrol method. In the summer, they went out into the woodland 5-6 miles outside of town, and camped. Without any adults. For the whole summer! Occasionally (like once a week) an adult would come out to check on them, or they'd hike in to buy food, or whatnot. Can you imagine a modern adult even considering such a natural application of youth leadership and the patrol method? Yah, there's a reason for it, Oak. In the modern age of hyperprotective parenting, youth leadership and the patrol method are extremely countercultural. It takes a lot of huztpah to buck the trend. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 "It takes a lot of huztpah to buck the trend." No it doesn't. All it takes is a simple, quite decision to do things the right way. It just takes a responsible adult to follow the program. Tens of thousands of scouters make that decision each year. Sadly, some don't. Link to post Share on other sites
juris 10 Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 Dear GNYC Scouter, NY is big and hecktic city. And I am glad that you are researching methodology of running a successful unit. I suggest you take regular basic courses, and then graduate to take woodbadge, then get " on hands experience ' with boys. This way you will experience 'what works, and what does not'. Just complaining on the forum, will only confuse you.,and many others.There are many , good intentioned Scouters and proffesionals, that point blank " don't know what they are talking about " That is one thing to theorise scouting, and an other to put it into active reality. I would suggestyou you read some books by the founder of Boy Scouting, Baden Powell.Juris,www, PS>>>>( read some coments of mine on some of the posts) Link to post Share on other sites
ozemu 10 Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 I suspect that it is harder today to appeal to young people. Young people are taught by media and fashion that people our age (specially males) are idiots or peadophiles. The electronic age has reduced concentration spans and a young persons willingness to pursevere (spelling?) Being away from adults is a bit scary for young people and seen as unimportant by parents. (If it were important adults would run it) Our rules and standards are much more severe (through bitter lessons learned) Argueably also most adults do NOT have a military background (skills). But the program is good wehn all of these things are dealt with. Just takes a long time to educate parents and youths on what is possible, safe, exciting, best practice for life education. I thought that after four years our Troop was going well. But my recent inability to attend meetings casued us to go for Patrol Activities. PL's did a good planning job and most of the younger ones called in with family reasons for not coming. Seems the education of parents and youths needs constant attention. It's not program or kids - its understanding of the program by all involved. Link to post Share on other sites
Lynda J 10 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 It isn't the boys. It's the adults. Many younger adults have gotten lazy. Sorry to say that. I am 58 soon to be 59. I camp as often as my boys want to camp. We hike and do lots of outdoor things. I grew up doing this. I don't hear from boys that they don't want to camp. I hear from adults that it is "to much work". I hear from boys in other troops that they are tired of not camping. They want to but the leaders don't want to. If you don't want to camp then why in the heck are you in scouting. Like someone said "75% of scouting is outing". Give me the out of doors any time. I hear the same thing from Girl Scouts. Leaders that don't want to camp and then wonder why girls are joining Venturing programs. The GS troop I grew up in camped every month. It didn't matter how cold or hot it was. Once a month my parents took the time to take us camping. We loaded the truck on Thrusday night. Left for camp on Friday as soon as school was out. Camp back just before dark on Sunday. We were lucky in that my dad had a boss that thought working with kids was just as important as making bank loans. IT was great. Link to post Share on other sites
SM Mike772 10 Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 I am a new Scoutmaster of a combined Pack and Troop we started with eight boys now we have some 20 boys signed up.... We started June 1st and its now July 24th 2005 Yes we have other adults leaders. Me being disable with the on set of Muscular Dysrophty I can not drive. I can stand and walk for short periods of time. However the last two field trips the adult leaders each day of the outing has called or not called to say they can not show up to take the boys. So I have to come up with an activity to sub for. We live in a housing project so these boys are very low income and disadvantaged. The boys behavior and attitues are way out of line as a Scout but I can live with that... I have done my best but already I am thinking of giving up on this Scout program in our project. The pack troop parents are not concerned at all there is more negative gossip about the Scout program than help. I have been a Scout all my life from cub to Life Scout then a Unit Commissioner when I return from Vietnam Conflict... But the boys of today are not boys they are men in behavior and attitudes>>>> I am not sure what I am asking here or what to do next but thanks for allowing me to vent anyway Bless all of my fellow adult Scouters Michael Troop 772 Arrowhead District Inland Empire Council of California Colton CA Link to post Share on other sites
scoutldr 732 Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Welcome to the forum, SM Mike! Thanks for doing what you do for the inner city kids. They are the ones who need us most of all. Link to post Share on other sites
scoutingagain 20 Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 I think the bigger question in this thread is why is it so difficult to find a unit that "follows the program"? and why is that considered bucking the trend? SA Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Kids! I don't know what's wrong with these kids today! Kids! Who can understand anything they say? Kids! They a disobedient, disrespectful oafs! Noisy, crazy, dirty, lazy, loafers! While we're on the subject: Kids! You can talk and talk till your face is blue! Kids! But they still just do what they want to do! Why can't they be like we were, Perfect in every way? What's the matter with kids today? Kids! I've tried to raise him the best I could Kids! Kids! Laughing, singing, dancing, grinning, morons! And while we're on the subject! Kids! They are just impossible to control! Kids! With their awful clothes and their rock an' roll! Why can't they dance like we did What's wrong with Sammy Caine? What's the matter with kids today! Link to post Share on other sites
ozemu 10 Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Hi SM Mike and welcome. You have taken on a big thing and my congratulaions on doing something. Whether it works or not is not all up to you. My experience (different kids to a fair extent I suppose) was that I needed help from my old Troop. On our first camp I had three PLs come and help me. They sort of mentored my new Scouts. Can you get help from nearby even for a single activity? The other Scouts might help to set the standard a bit higher. I also worked really hard to have magical first events to again set a high standard. Simple but loads of fun and exciting. Not boy led at all but I was trying to set an example of what they be doing. Then I handed over to the new PLs as much as possible. Other ideas (sorry it is random but I have to go to work). Is there assistance from other non Scouting organisations who can help get magical first events or reliable progams? Emergency services, adult service clubs, outdoor businesses, outdoor clubs (canoe club, wlking club etc) Can you split the Scouts and Cubs? They have different abilities and ideas of what is cool. Try working on a Patrol at a time if adult help is inconsistant. Maybe allocate Patrols to ASMs and then have them set a day program just for that small group. This might get the adults to react rather than fobbing the event off. Good luck - Im off to work. Link to post Share on other sites
SemperParatus 1 Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 CNYS, The absolute best way to keep scouting pure and enjoyable is to associate with those who are not looking to find blame with someone or something (whether its kids, adults, programs, or otherwise). Keep it positive. Good luck in your new troop. Link to post Share on other sites
CNYScouter 46 Posted July 27, 2005 Author Share Posted July 27, 2005 Hi SP, I fully agree about associating with those who are not looking to find blame with someone or something. The problem is finding these people in scouting in my area. The only place I seem to meet these types are the trainers at Training sessions and very few are from my District (our district no longer offers training). I completed SM training this spring. Even though my district is the most populated in the council out of the 30+ trainers only 3 were from my district. Of the 40 participants, only two were from my district. I asked some of the staff about this and I was told it was typical that very few people from my district volunteer to be trainers. The examples were not just from one troop. They were a combination of things I heard from my old troop and from some of the other troops when we went shopping for a new troop. I am hearing these same types of things from some of the adult leaders in the new troop we joined. Its becoming very frustrating when I make a suggestion about a change in the troops program straight out of the SM handbook and I am told that I dont know what Im talking about, or that Im not living in the real world because that stuff doesnt work. I can say that I have seen a great program in action that used the program and saw that it does work if given the chance. CNYScouter Link to post Share on other sites
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