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amg4814

Looking to move to a new pack, need advice

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I disagree with Chris.

 

I think it would be a bad idea for a den leader to leapfrog over the CM, CC, and COR, and take the problem to the council.  This is a unit problem, and it should be handled at the unit level.

 

If things are really so bad that you would consider complaining to the council, then it really is time for you to change units.  But don't go crying to council.

Edited by David CO

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Welcome to scouting and thanks for being a willing volunteer!

 

I took a den from tigers to boy scouts and they are now high school sophomores, most of them active in scouting.  (I still get to work with them on occasion.)

 

I agree that 3/4's of the cub scout experience is in the den.  A lot of the tiger year is really about making and keeping friends in a small group.  If you are not intending for your son to change schools next year, these friendships are very valuable to your son's development.  If the den is working for your son, work on improving that experience.   You started that by getting trained.  Enroll your other parents into volunteering in the den, and perhaps for the pack tasks.  Make your den the strongest in the pack! Continue to use your district and council resources, training for you and events for your den.  Encourage the other leaders to get trained.

 

In most packs the pack leadership turns over every 3 years, if not more often than that -- and some newly recruited volunteers might be disinterested, or not have the skills.  Our cubmaster was always kinda a figurehead, and the den leaders were the actual leaders of the pack.  

 

I would move packs immediately if I saw adults bullying the boys, or not following the BSA rules.  Disorganization and weak leaders at the top....well, that can be endured (deep breath).  

 

Our pack always had a lot of issues with paperwork, that's not the main issue.  Ask a lot of questions about the pack schedule. 

 

Remember to enjoy your tigers.  Watch for those smiles....  

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I disagree with Chris.

 

I think it would be a bad idea for a den leader to leapfrog over the CM, CC, and COR, and take the problem to the council.  This is a unit problem, and it should be handled at the unit level.

 

If things are really so bad that you would consider complaining to the council, then it really is time for you to change units.  But don't go crying to council.

 

Or.....

 

Contact the council office to see if YOU are registered.  If not, notify the "leaders" of the pack that as soon as it becomes official, you would be happy to take on the position of Den Leader.  Until then, one is not officially in the system, are not covered with the liability insurance, don't need YPT, don't need training, and could have your scouting career abruptly halted for any reason with no BSA backup to support you.

 

I wouldn't recommend tight-rope walking without a net to anyone.  Make sure you're registered, otherwise you are just another parent chaperon. 

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OP can just check their training records to see if scouted ID number is attached. If they have a number they know they are registered.

Edited by F-P

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So I was able to talk to several people who are familiar with Scouts and our area council and they have all said the same thing, Get out now! By pure coincidence the Executive Director text messaged me to see how things are going and to ask if I have been able to turn in my dens applications, forms and money. I explained to her that the CC is handling all that but that I turned it all in at least 3 weeks ago. I've overheard the CC make a comment that they had trouble rechartering last year and to cancel some activities because of their difficulties. I guess now I need to look into a new pack, figure out how I'm going to break the news to the other parents and see how to get my application, health forms and my money back or moved to a different pack.

Edited by amg4814

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OP can just check their training records to see if scouted ID number is attached. If they have a number they know they are registered.

 

Not true.  All Tiger Parents are registered for one year as Adult Partners and assigned a number.  So this wouldn't necessarily prove anything.  However, in my.scouting.org I think you should see that you are missing training if you are properly registered as a Den Leader and haven't taken Position Specific Training yet.

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I disagree with Chris.

 

I think it would be a bad idea for a den leader to leapfrog over the CM, CC, and COR, and take the problem to the council.  This is a unit problem, and it should be handled at the unit level.

 

If things are really so bad that you would consider complaining to the council, then it really is time for you to change units.  But don't go crying to council.

 

Apparently David CO is in the camp who believes that Unit Commissioners are the Council's spies.  That shouldn't be the case.  The Commissioner service exists to help units.  If a unit needs help, I encourage Scouters at any level, from parent to Institutional Head, to reach out to a Commissioner and ask for help.  The purpose of reaching out to a Commissioner isn't to get anyone in trouble, but to get people who need help the help they need (even if they don't know they need help).  A good commissioner can come in, observe what is going on for a meeting or two, and probably come up with an action plan along with the leaders of the unit to help the unit to function better.  A good commissioner knows that units function on a broad spectrum - from barely surviving to thriving.  We know that we aren't going to fix a unit's problems in a week, but that we can help a unit to fix one or two things at a time, with the eventual goal that the unit is heading up instead of down.

 

Don't take my word for it, you can see what we do right here in four simple statements:

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Commissioners.aspx

Unit commissioners will focus on the following four primary areas:

  1. Supporting unit growth through the Journey to Excellence.
  2. Contacting units and capturing their strengths and needs in Commissioner Tools.
  3. Linking unit needs to district operating committee resources.
  4. Supporting timely charter renewal.

 

The purpose of documenting needs in Commissioner Tools isn't to spy on units, but to get the units that need help the most the help they need.  By documenting it other Commissioners and District professionals who work with the unit are aware of the health status of the unit and what the unit needs.  Three years ago, I was a new Cubmaster for a unit that needed help.  On a scale of 1-5, we were most likely very close to a '1'.  A Unit Commissioner identified that we had a need, put us in contact with District resources, and within two years we went from being the unit in the most trouble, to one of the top performing units in the District.  Without the Commissioner service, that would not have happened.  Now I'm a Commissioner and I use my experience to help other units the same way that my unit was helped.

 

So I encourage you to heed what I've said, and not be paranoid of asking for help.  We are really there to help, that's all.

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Not true.  All Tiger Parents are registered for one year as Adult Partners and assigned a number.  So this wouldn't necessarily prove anything.  However, in my.scouting.org I think you should see that you are missing training if you are properly registered as a Den Leader and haven't taken Position Specific Training yet.

Yeah aren't we trying to figure out if registration was processed? So if they have the number the registration was handed in.

Sorry was just trying for easy way to find out without having to all council office.

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amg4814

 

First off, welcome to this forum.  From someone that has been through something similar to this, my recommendation is to get out now.  There are too many other Packs out there.  I was with the same Pack for nine years serving as a Den Leader, Committee Chairman and Cubmaster.  I wanted to step down as the Cubmaster to devote my time to the 12 boys I had been working with since they were Tigers and get them ready for Boy Scouts.  I had had my problems with other leaders not wanting to do the minimum required for the boys and knew it was time for a change.  Once I made the change to Den Leader, several people turned on my wife and I after we told them we would no longer be available to run all the Pack events.  We had a difficult decision to make.  Leave a Pack we had been with for nine years with only 6 months left in my youngest sons Arrow of Light year and 11 other boys I had worked with for four and a half years or put up with silly childish behavior that would sour my scouting experience with my son.  We chose to move and it was the best decision we could have ever made.  It just so happens that nine of the other families moved as well (on their own without any advice from me).  Our new Pack welcomed us with open arms.  You are a volunteer that should be proud to serve in scouting and also have fun spending time with your family while teaching other boys and their families valuable skills that they will use their entire life.  Just remember, when it is no longer fun, it is time to move on.  These are some of the best years you will spend with your Scout and family.  Don't waste time dealing with situations you can't fix or control.  Sadly, some people just don't play well with others.  Hope this helps.

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