KoreaScouter 13 Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 OK, picture this. Monthly these is shooting, and our feature event is a day up at Schofield Barracks, at the Rod & Gun Club, with a firearms instructor, rifles, and 1500 rounds of .22 long rifle. 6:45 a.m. at the meeting point, 15 Scouts with permission slips and fully turned out (okay, one forgot his water bottle, but we had plenty anyway), four adults, a tour permit, and loads of enthusiasm. The instructor brought his personally owned weapons, none less than 50 years old, impeccably maintained (one was a semi-auto, which he secured back in his vehicle before we got to the line). The KD range at Schofield offers a commanding view of the east face of the Waianae mountain range as a backdrop, birds chirping, the whole nine yards. After instruction, we're on the line. One adult (including me) on each firing position, with the instructor and another range official calling the range instructions. There are about 20 firing points on this range, we're only using the first four. Other rod & gun club members are a little further down, but all are following our instructors' directions. A very controlled, and very safe environment. Things are going swimmingly. The Scouts were quick learners, some were already shooters, many tight groups, everybody following all the instructions, and they're truly enjoying themselves and feeling like they've accomplished something. When someone asks "Why are you a Scoutmaster?", it's for mornings like this. Well, with 15 Scouts and four firing positions, there's a little idle time for everybody. I'm on the first point; down on the 6th point is one of the Rod/Gun club members with his weapons. All military guys, very friendly, appreciated seeing the Scouts out there. While I'm showing a young Tenderfoot the finer points of breath control and trigger squeeze, the Rod/Gun club member on the 6th point asks one of my Scouts who's back off of point 4 with his buddy, waiting his turn to fire the .22, if he'd like to try out the Rod/Gun club member's .357 Magnum. Young Tenderfoot is probably only vaguely aware there's a G2SS at all, let alone that it doesn't permit him to do that. He replies, "Sure, thanks!", and he with his buddy in tow, proceed to do just that. Meanwhile, back at point 1, my young Tenderfoot has completed his course of fire, and backs off the line. That little cartoon guy on my shoulder tells me I should take an assessment of what the Scouts are doing. I scan the line; all is well until I see two of our activity shirts down at point 6. I scoot down there and have our Scout pry his warm, live fingers from around the grips of that hogleg. I explain to the Scout why I did it, and the Rod/Gun club member apologizes profusely. No harm done, we caught it and stopped it. Lessons learned? Several, I think: - You can't have too many adult eyes out there. I thought we had enough, but didn't have enough who were conversant in the G2SS. If I did it over again, I'd have an additional savvy Scouter as an overwatch, or put that guy on the line and do it myself (as much as I enjoyed teaching the marksmanship). - The typical Scout wouldn't know the G2SS if it jumped up and bit him on the...ankle. The SPL and PL Handbooks are silent on it, and it isn't part of JLT. I know the G2SS is designed for adult leaders, but there's nothing wrong with the youth, even if only the Green Bars, having some level of familiarity with it. I intend to include a G2SS overview in TJLT in the future. - Never underestimate the enthusiasm and curiosity of boys, especially when there's explosives involved, God bless 'em. All's well that ends well, I guess. But, I could have done more than I did to keep that from happening, and I consider myself a by-the-book, safety-oriented kinda guy. KS Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2780 Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 >>but there's nothing wrong with the youth, even if only the Green Bars, having some level of familiarity with it. I intend to include a G2SS overview in TJLT in the future. Link to post Share on other sites
LauraT7 13 Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 That's what i like about this board - I come here for comraderie,ideas, a little info, and somebody slaps me upside the head with something, and I have one of those "DUH!" moments! LOL! OF course! I think you're right about including G2SS in JLT and the PLC - I'm going to mention it to our SPL and our JASM's tonite. If we truly want boy-lead troops and events, THEY have to know the guides as well as the adults. Yes, the adults have 'veto' power in regards to safety, but the safety guides shouldn't be some big secret used to keep the boys in the dark and hold them back, as they sometimes are in our troop. (As in, No, you can't go canoeing if you haven't passed your BSA swim test) As an incentive, I'd bet that you would get alot less dissention from the boys about doing things like paintball & lazer tag, IF they know from the start what the guides are! If they make their plans with the guides firmly in mind - then there is no NEED for adult veto power, is there? having never been involved in a JLT training myself, It never occurred to me that the boys don't know the rules as well as I do - but you're right - it's not in any of the material my son has been given as a scout, so how would he know? I'm going to make it a point to get the info to our PLC and have our SM include it in troop JLT's. thanks! Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2780 Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 >>having never been involved in a JLT training myself, It never occurred to me that the boys don't know the rules as well as I do Link to post Share on other sites
eisely 13 Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 Doh!! Link to post Share on other sites
Eamonn 61 Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Some people think that I know everything that is in the guide - Sad to say I don't. Rather then trying to eat the entire elephant I think that it is best done one bite at a time or in this case one activity at a time. It might be possible to have parts of the guide photocopied and added to the parent permission slip? - Again just a thought. I know that I'm going to get shot down for this - But while we adults do everything possible to ensure the safety and well being of the youth in our charge there is always the "Kids do the darnedest things factor". Not that we should ever allow this to over shadow the planning and thought that we must and ought to put into everything that we do. Eamonn Link to post Share on other sites
ozemu 10 Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 I have a poor memory for detail and must check all the time. What never fails though is that my gut feeling is always correct. Not to say that my gut feeling is always alert though (sleepy little blighter) but when it whispers I listen. It seems that KS pays attention to the same animal. It is a good backup to the official rules and should never be underestimated. That is what I teach my Scouts. If it doesn't look/feel/sound right then don't do it. These were Tenderfoot Scouts though and they are always wild cards. Well done KS. Link to post Share on other sites
matuawarrior 10 Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Great Job KS on the intercept. I agree that G2SS should be part of the JLT. I've only done it for SPL and JASM's but with your suggestion. We'll add it to our JLT as well. Our Green Bars should also be aware of the guides and not just certain leaders. Great timing too. We have JLT next Weekend. Matua KS, Did you attend the Council Dinner? Link to post Share on other sites
Sturgen 10 Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Wasnt it a .44 mag, not a .357 mag that can make [or break] my day Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 "Wasnt it a .44 mag, not a .357 mag that can make [or break] my day Yep, S&W model 29-2 with 6 1/2" barrel for the long shots and a S&W 29-2 with a 8 3/8" barrel for the close-ups looking down the barrel (as when the guy was lying on the ground looking into that huge hole). Link to post Share on other sites
mk9750 11 Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Nice job, KS! When we shoot, we always have an assistant range master who appears to st and do nothing. But it is his job to know where everyone is and what they are doing. Guys don't wonder of to tinkle without him knowing it. Works for us. We also don't have the same worry you have. We use a Police Dept. firing range (one of our Eagles built it as an Eagle Project), and I'd bet 98% of the population doesn't even know it exists. So we don't have to do a lot of sharing of the range. FOG, Are you really that smart, or do you have the world's best encyclepedia loaded on your computer? Mark Link to post Share on other sites
KoreaScouter 13 Posted February 24, 2004 Author Share Posted February 24, 2004 Yes, I knew it was a .44 in the movie, but I don't know of a great tagline for the .357 (FOG, help?). There were two range supervisors out there in addition to those of us on the firing points, and they were absolutely meticulous about safety, accountability, horseplay, headcounts, and proper procedures. What they weren't is registered Scouters, let alone Scouters who were familiar with the BSA firearms use restrictions. As long as a shooter was following Army and club range safety procedures, the Scout could have been pounding a Mk-19 and they wouldn't bat an eye. MK; not to be contrary, but if you're using a police range, unless it's too small to have Scouts and cops out there at the same time, it's possible you could run into the same situation if a police officer is out there with his Sig. The Scout-savvy overwatch should jump in to prevent it, which was the one thing we didn't have. KS Link to post Share on other sites
KoreaScouter 13 Posted February 24, 2004 Author Share Posted February 24, 2004 Matua; Didn't make the dinner; I was back on the Mainland that week... KS Link to post Share on other sites
mk9750 11 Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 KS, The range we use has 6 stations, and we've never shared it with any of the patrolmen. We have to call the Chief to get permission. Sometime during the time we're there (usually Sunday mornings), he'll come out to checkthings out. But we've never seen a policeman there when we've been shooting. Had a few of them there when it was being built. It was kind of fun watching a 17 year old direct the cops. I would like to think that a cop would never give anyone else a weapon to fire, but I know that's idealistic. Mark Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 "I would like to think that a cop would never give anyone else a weapon to fire," Why? Link to post Share on other sites
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