Should SM be asked to leave?

[TAHAWK 1420]

Stosh, I allow as how there is possibly another side to the story.  However, when someone comes here and ask us for advice BASED ON FACTS HE OR SHE ALLEGES, we are not a jury passing judgment.  We are just giving advice based on the facts alleged.   Different facts produce different results.

 

Zuzy, strictly speaking, the SPL does not run the troop.  The troop's activities, according to B.S.A., are to be democratically planned by the PLC with the SPL acting as a voting chairman of the planning meeting and the PLs representing their respective patrol's wants and needs.  The SPL then acts as the leader of the troop activities thus selected, working through the PLs as much as possible. ("Joe, pssst.  Please keep your guys quiet.")  In the real world, many troops are improperly adult-run.

 

After telling the PLs to be prepared to suggest program elements, the SPL here can simply inform the SM that he would like to have a PLC meeting on X date, at X time, at X location, copying the Troop Chair to comply with the no one-on-one communication rule..  If the SM sabotages the process, it should be documented.  

 

If a PLC meeting results, the SPL leads the PLs in choosing major program themes for the next quarter (or more)(e.g., first aid)  and detailed program schedules for the next month''s meetings.  The SM is there in a non-voting advisory/resource capacity according to B.S.A., save for safety and values issues.

 

Is the SPL fully trained?  If not, contact the district training chair to find out where the SPL can get training - in your district, in your council, or elsewhere.

 

> Useful tactical tool when dealing with "superiors": "Sir, I would like to talk to you about an idea that I would like to try."

 

> Old adage: If you plan on revenge, dig two graves.

 

> Define goals carefully.

 

 

 

 

 

[Stosh 3452]

 

 

 

 

 

I have a difficult time interpreting telling the boy to go to the CC and COR with his issues about the Scoutmaster as anything but telling him to take on the Scoutmaster.  

 

As long as these comments are directed to me I'll answer them directly back.  If any scout is having difficulty with an adult who are they to go to for help?   Well, this boy is the SPL, doesn't leave many choices.  Mom and Dad and their options are limited.  They may or may not be part of the troop adult scouters.  In this case we have a father who is and can pull rank on the SM as the units UC.  Yeah, that's a pleasant conflict just simmering in the background.  The boy can take the initiative of talk to the SM.  He hasn't chosen to take that option and instead is taking a sit down and wait position.  That's as well isn't going to solve anything.  He can go to the subordinate scouters such as an ASM, but that isn't going to solve anything so the best bet would be a superior to the SM.  Not the best choice but doable.  It is my opinion here that we have a scout that is supposed to be taking the leadership of SPL and being intimidated by a SM who may in fact be waiting for him to take some initiative.  The one thing I have not heard in regards to this whole situation is, "Did the SPL ever ask the SM for help or did he just wait for the SM to offer what may or may not be warranted?"  The boy is working on his Eagle project, is described by his parents as mature and responsible, yet he sits back and waits for the SM to read his mind and step in and help him.    That's not showing leadership or leadership initiative.  Sorry, but the boy needs to step up and say, I could use some guidance here Mr. SM.  as a valid course of action, something the boy hasn't done.  How does the SM know when to help when the boy doesn't ask?

 

Also, I think your disparaging comments about a 14 year old who is struggling (and it appears succeeding) to lead AS A RESULT of a Scoutmaster who appears to be doing everything in his power to have the boy fail are out of line when you (as well as the rest of us) don't know the situation.  

 

Yes, we don't know the situation and we don't know the motivation of the SM, we only have the perception by others as to what they think might be going on.  Ever think it might be time to find out instead of just guessing.

 

NO SCOUT should have to function in a hostile environment.  

 

Hostle?  Are we sure that it's really hostile or is is just over-sensitivity?  Again we don't know.  This could be added to the agenda of things to find out for sure.

 

That is not part of the program.  This Scout seems to be trying to make the program more boy led and more outdoor oriented and all you can talk about is "more than just wearing a patch?"  Give me a freaking break.  

 

I don't think I mentioned anything of the sort in this thread.  I never said the boy was just wearing a patch, so give me a freaking break as well.

 

The role of adults is to build up the boys into men, not tear them down.  It seems like the SM and you are both trying to tear this boy down before he even has a chance to suceed.  That is not my idea of the program.

 

And lumping me into this situation with the SM is anything but my kind of program as well.  There is a major difference between tearing a boy down and putting before him a challenge to step up and succeed as a leader.  If one is going to lump those two together then we have nothing more to discuss because I see a huge difference between the two if others don't. 

 

 

 

Again, I think you are out of line blaming the boy in this situation when the SM provides no guidance and then reams him out for not doing what the SM expects.  That is the hallmark of an adult led troop -- setting the boys up for failure.  

 

I never blamed the boy for the situation, and it is okay to blame me for something I suggested might help the boy?  Yeah, that's fair.  Having the boy take the initiative to implement his boy-led changes and to move the troop in a new direction as the SPL is not setting the boy up for failure.  For those who have failed to see that this is what I was suggestion would be wise to re-read more carefully what's written not what one thinks is written.

 

It is very difficult for me not to take that as a sarcastic personal insult.

 

I don't remember using anyone's name in any of my posts.  Yet I find it very easy to let other's judgments on the subject be allowed on the forum because everyone should have the same opportunity to express freely their offers of help without being judged by others.

 

If someone is bullying (defined as using a position of supreriority to manipulate them) my child, I will rectify the situation by using whatever power is at my disposal.  Sometimes, that will be the power of advice to my child.  When it is an adult using a position of power to belittle and demean a child, I will intervene - regardless of whether it is my child or someone else's child.  Sometimes, all that is needed to stand up for yourself is the knowledge that your parent will stand behind you.  

 

I teach my boys to fight their own battles and I encourage parents to support them in that struggle.  If they lose they pick themselves up and try again.   My boys NEVER LOSE!  They either win or they learn, but they never lose.  The one thing I never have my boys do is have someone else fight their battles for them and that includes running to the parents every time something doesn't go their way.  This boy is about half way through his scouting career, he's on the cusp of his Eagle, it might do him well to take part in this process going on especially now that he's been elected SPL of the troop.

 

If in the case mentioned that the adults are bullying the child, press charges, report it to the DE, SE and whoever else will listen.  If one thinks it is warranted, notify the authorities and have charged pressed.  My boys are told from day one that if anyone bully's them they report it to me, to their parents, to their teacher, their pastor or anyone that will listen and if no one will listen, call 9-1-1.  After 35+ years of challenging youth to grow up and be leaders, no one has ever complained I have bullied anyone.  I find it strange that there may be a few on the forum who have somehow drawn that conclusion.

 

It might be well to ask the SPL if he's being bullied or challenged.  I don't think that has occurred to anyone as of yet.  A few have implied that, but no one has asked that I have heard thus far.

 

You know more about scouting then you give yourself credit for.  A Scout is Friendly, Courteous and Kind.  Remind your son that a Scout is Cheerful and Brave.  And NEVER stop being a MOM.

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2016 by Stosh

[zuzy 23]

Thanks