Membership: That Was The Year That Was.

[Eamonn 61]

Have to own up to not being in tip top form tonight. In no small part due to an ongoing disagreement with both the Scout Exec and the Nit who is our Field Director.

Our district has met all our goals except membership. We are in fact the only district to meet the finance goal and popcorn goal. While we are still doing work on membership, sad to say it just ain't happening.

Along comes the Nit. He wants to sign up a couple of grades in the high school and make them Venturers. He has this plan that the kids will be herded into the auditorium and work on Venturing advancement stuff. I asked for a face to face meeting to discuss this and have been informed that there isn't time.

I have tried to explain that there is no adult leaders. He tells me that the hope is that eventually a teacher might come forward. In the meantime our DE will fill in. Pam our DE by her own admission knows little or nothing about Venturing. I have E-mailed him the BSA "What Is Venturing" page and tried to explain that what he is trying to do is more along the lines of Learning for life then traditional Scouting. But he tells me that the Executive Committee (Not Board) wants this.

While I am not supposed to know. At the staff meeting held yesterday I was being viewed as a trouble maker and they can't understand why I am not for this.

To be really honest I am more then upset. I know that he will "Sign up" all these kids without application forms filled in and signed by the parents. There will not be the committee members that the BSA requires. As for me being a trouble maker. They have yet to see trouble. If need be I will get a court injunction to stop this going through until all the paper work is in order.I really hate to embarrass the council like this but what they are doing is wrong. 2003 has been a tough year. We busted our tails to meet the goals and try to meet membership. Being a Quality District means a lot to me. But telling lies and cheating is not the way that I want to get it.

[hops_scout 9]

Good for you.

[Bob White 20]

As much as I agree with you Eamonn, and I agree 100%, this is not going to be your call as the District Commissioner although it will be your headache after it is done.

 

As DSteele would probably tell you, your DE has little choice but to do as his supervisor tells her. But she also knows that she will have little time to actual give to the unit to insure its success.

 

The only person with the ability to affect this before it happens is your District Chair who is a member of the executive committe. and the representatives of your District who sit on that committee. You Chairman needs to convince them that this is not the answer for your community. if The Nit wants to do this let him make some other District his hero.

 

Assuming that this unit is formed, it's chances of survival are unlikely. So next year after it fails you will have another unit and several members to make up for. What your FD is trying to do is band-aid management and it's unfortunate that you have been saddled with it.

 

I have done a lot of jobs in scouting Eamonn, DC is the only one I do not wish to do again.

 

Good Luck,

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Fat Old Guy 11]

I want to know who is paying the registration fee? The school, student or council.

 

As for choices, the DE has many choices. When it comes to ethical prfessional behavior saying, "I wuz told to do it" never flies.

[Bob White 20]

I would be remiss if I did not remind the members of this forum that FOG obtained access to this board again only by lying about his identity to the forum moderator. Please keep that in mind when he chooses to expound on matters of ethical behavior.

 

The Field Director has not asked the DE to anything illegal or immoral, he is only showing bad managerial judgement. Everyday, many people have to follow through on bad decisions made by management in every imaginable occupation. To say that doing so is unethical is nonsense.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[KoreaScouter 13]

Hang on a second, I'm confused.

 

Are these students being herded into an existing, already-chartered Crew, or are they forming a start-up? If it's the former, I understand what he's doing (smells bad, but I understand the technique). If it's the latter, I thought you had to have a CO, 3-person committee, and leaders in order to get out of the starting blocks. If they're pencil-whipping that, doesn't this rise somewhat above bad judgement?

 

KS

[Fat Old Guy 11]

Bob White, you really need help. You are fixated on a fantasy of your own creation. Please seek help before you hurt a Scout.

 

 

[hops_scout 9]

STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is getting quite old. It is really starting to bother me:(

[Eagledad 2779]

>>But he tells me that the Executive Committee (Not Board) wants this.

While I am not supposed to know. At the staff meeting held yesterday I was being viewed as a trouble maker and they can't understand why I am not for this.

[dsteele 20]

Eamonn and I have discussed this and I feel his frustration.

 

My guess is that the Crew is an existing Crew and that they've done this before. If the kids are going to get a program, that is one thing. If they're not going to get a program, that is quite another.

 

I can alleviate one thing that is troubling you, Eamonn. Venturer applications do not require the signature of a parent -- they sign for themselves.

 

I forget who pointed out that if the unit fails the council and district will have to come up with another unit and more youth to make up for it. It's a good point. However, it is also true that any time a unit is started you have the same situation. That's why it's in everyone's best interest to make sure that new units are successfull and that requires effort on the part of everyone concerned -- the commissioner staff, training staff, advancement committee, activities committee, district committee, the District Executive, the Nit, etc.

 

As District Commissioner you may not be able to stop the jauggernaut, but you can hold some feet to the fire to make sure that the kids who are being counted as memberss receive the program as advertised throughout the next year.

 

It's okay to sell the moon and the stars as long as someone delivers the moon and the stars.

 

DS

 

PS -- that's not the way I'm instructing my DE's to achieve Quality. I have thought of doing that, but it's really not my style although the temptation is great.

[Fat Old Guy 11]

" It's a shame that even in a place where character and integrity is a common theme, there is much struggle from selfish desires."

 

When the powers-that-be focus so much on membership and money, what else can you expect. You can make quality unit without gaining membership but at every turn we hear that we need more units, more scouts, more money.

 

 

[Twocubdad 665]

Creating a paper unit without a committee or leadership, registering youth without their parent's consent, diverting resources (the DE's time) to artificially keep the unit going, knowingly placing youth in a unit with little expectation of being provided a real Scout program, Lord only knows with the CO was told to get them to sign the charter -- all for the purpose of puffing numbers. How is this not unethical behavior? Can you say "Enron"?

 

Eamonn, aren't you the District Chairman? How does the FD and/or SE "not have time" to meet with a District Chairman? Where are the checks and balances in this system? I would guess the regional office would be your next stop.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[Laurie 10]

Eamonn, what a tough situation, and how I feel for you in this. I wonder if this is what often brings up the "us and them" thing with volunteers and pros (no offense to pros--I happen to respect Dave tremendously as well as many pros in my own council). It seems as though the challenges are different though. The council offices need to bring in funds and need to deal with the numbers, including membership. Those volunteering are focusing more on program, on individual units, even on individuals (leaders or youth). Ideally, the two should complement one another. In this case, it seems that they butt heads. Sadly, as I begin to understand the numbers game, which my own DE told me is very important to him and all in the office--and he explained why, I also see where it has the potential to create the problem faced now. I can also see that I should have been more willing to actively recruit more in order to help my DE and the district and council as a whole. However, this situation just stinks. It does sound unethical, and Eamonn, you seem to care deeply about people first, numbers second. Keep that up, and I hope to hear that things worked out well--and without getting too nasty.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

DS, you said something I never knew and do not understand.

 

A Venturing youth application does not require a parental signature? Not just a "youth" of 18 to 20 (who is legally an adult but a youth for Venturing purposes), but one of any age? In other words, if a 14-year-old boy wants to join a Boy Scout troop, he needs parental consent, but if the same boy wants to join a Venturing crew, he only needs his own signature? What sense does that make?

 

As for Eamonn's issue, I was confused like KS, and I am still confused. How can a unit be chartered without the requisite number of adult unit committee members? How does it even get in the computer? I know that if my troops re-charter application showed up at council without a CC and at least 2 CM's, it isn't going anywhere, never mind the fact that the troop has existed for almost 80 years. (Fortunately no chance of that happening, we almost have too many adult leaders, though that doesn't always mean they are always "used" in the most productive manner or that they always do what they have committed to do.)

 

So I still don't fully understand what is happening here.

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"What sense does that make?"

 

It makes the same sense that a 17 year old Venturer can drive to a meeting but a 17 year old Scout cannot.