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King Ding Dong

National Outdoor Achievement Badges and Award

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interesting.

As a cub leader and dad, I'm not familiar with all of this yet. When I was a scout, I wasn't familiar with it either.

 

Sounds like good advice for the boys might be to keep a log book starting the minute they join the troop.

Even if they have no sight set on such an award, they might some day.

 

Log books can be great. Two of my old hobbies encourage and almost require it (flying and SCUBA). Many magazine articles have been written on the nostalgia of reading back through log books. It truly can be fun.

 

The problems I see with it are

a) getting the boys to see the importance

b) knowing what to record.

 

So, what do you all think of a scout log book?

What would you record?

I'm almost surprised that there isn't some sort of log book already incorporated into the scout handbook. Is there?

 

Now that I'm thinking about it, I wish that I would have started one together with my son, as we started our cub scout adventure...... logging all of the camping trips and outings.

 

 

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interesting.

As a cub leader and dad, I'm not familiar with all of this yet. When I was a scout, I wasn't familiar with it either.

 

Sounds like good advice for the boys might be to keep a log book starting the minute they join the troop.

Even if they have no sight set on such an award, they might some day.

 

Log books can be great. Two of my old hobbies encourage and almost require it (flying and SCUBA). Many magazine articles have been written on the nostalgia of reading back through log books. It truly can be fun.

 

The problems I see with it are

a) getting the boys to see the importance

b) knowing what to record.

 

So, what do you all think of a scout log book?

What would you record?

I'm almost surprised that there isn't some sort of log book already incorporated into the scout handbook. Is there?

 

Now that I'm thinking about it, I wish that I would have started one together with my son, as we started our cub scout adventure...... logging all of the camping trips and outings.

 

There are log sheets up on UsScouts and/or meritbadge.org and also some troop level excel sheets.

 

I think journaling the scouting journey is important also, but most the kids not so much. :). If we let them have electronics they would be more likely to Facebook it. :(

 

This award replaced an older one in 2010. If you look at the requirements for the medal, they are very impressive. As others have mentioned earning earning it is rare.

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The paperwork involved in this award is a capital-N Nightmare. To facilitate boys who want to apply for it, I've created a spreadsheet that keeps track of every trip the troop offers or any Scouting event that any boy from the troop attended (OA, high adv., jambo) going back as far as the oldest scout in the troop. First column is the date (month/year), then trip title (XYZ State Park), then a column for each badge category: Camping, Hiking, Riding, Aquatics, Adventure. In those 5 columns is recorded the applicable data; for camping X nights, aquatics, X hours, riding X miles, etc.

It's virtually impossible, in my view, for a boy to calculate his hours, miles, etc by himself, especially since TroopMaster will not allow us to record that information in a trip (it's either a campign trip wtih recorded nights, or a hiking trip with miles, but not both)

Take note that a single high adventure trip which doubles the defined parameters of high adventure can count as 2 toward the award. Also take note that multiple activities on one trip count toward all badges (if on one campout you rode 5 miles, swam for 2 hours, and hiked 3 miles, that's creditable to all 4 badges).

 

I do not share your interpretation of the use of long term nights for the camping gold/silver device. The only limit on long term nights for the badge. There is no such restriction listed for the devices. The first 3 boys in our troop to earn the award all qualified for silver camping devices at the same time; and they all applied 15-30 nights of long term camping to the device (they all had multiple years of summer camp and the 2010 nat'l jamboree). I did not allow the boys to count nights spent indoors (our annual lock in, or the rare cabin trip).

The council reviewed and approved the applications. They were between 14 and 16 years old, so it's well within an active scout's reach to earn multiple silver devices in camping.

The ability for a scout to earn these is dependent upon his troop's program. Our troop goes biking with a 50-mile option every year. We hike all the time, and we go on long-term hikes almost every summer. Riding and camping are a cinch. The real difficulty, in my opinion, is the aquatics badge because of its inclusion of the Mile Swim on the base level, and the high adventure badge because of the amount of high adv a boy has to do (10 for the base badge).

 

So, if your troop camps every month, and your son goes with them, and he goes to summer camp, and throws in a week-long hike once a year, and some OA campouts, there is no need for you to start manipulating the PLC into calling father-son bike rides troop or patrol events. I think you're overthinking it.

 

If you are worried about the ability to earn it within your existing yearly program, then your son should talk-up the award to his patrol mates and get them all inspired to earn the awards, and then they'll want to set up their own patrol day trips and campouts to enable themselves to earn it. Maybe call the council and see how many boys earn it (very few if I were a betting man, mostly due to its clerical nightmarishness) and turn it into a prestige thing for the boys--even rarer than Eagle. ;)

So you guys don't meet all summer???????

 

We are super active, The boys man the scout booth at the state and county fairs, flag retirement at the local VFW fair, we work the food pantry Wednsday and Saturday, The patrols hike twice a month and currently I have a patrol in my basement playing Black ops or some other shooter game......We have our July campout/canoe trip......then August we have a national park visit schedule and Our state senator is giving us a tour of the State capital.

 

Scout son leave for jambo in a couple of weeks.....

 

Summer is the best time for scouting.

 

Oh I forgot fishing outing this weekend...........

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Under the auspices......Means during a scouting function or event....as mentioned earlier....

 

your out of line again. You should discuss it with your son. Maybe coach him how to approach the PLC about it and maybe help him promote it. But the bottom line is the boys need to decide to do it. If they say no.....then shelve it for a year and then bring it back up.........

 

 

In my opinion it is a far superior award to Eagle. the award means a lad has took his BSA experience and got every last drop of adventure. I would like for my son or a member of my troop to earn it....But they simply are not interested in it.

 

Being short sighted as young men are.

Under the auspice removes it from being an individual award.......

 

So my scout is in his fourth year..........he has 96 nights of camping, 154 hours of community service...327 miles of hiking.....80 hours of swiming, sailing and canoeing....

 

All with his troop patrol, or at summer camp.

 

Scout son has backpacked with me for since he could walk.....canoes, hiked and fished.......other than the merit badges and rank he could have had it already earned.

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The paperwork involved in this award is a capital-N Nightmare. To facilitate boys who want to apply for it, I've created a spreadsheet that keeps track of every trip the troop offers or any Scouting event that any boy from the troop attended (OA, high adv., jambo) going back as far as the oldest scout in the troop. First column is the date (month/year), then trip title (XYZ State Park), then a column for each badge category: Camping, Hiking, Riding, Aquatics, Adventure. In those 5 columns is recorded the applicable data; for camping X nights, aquatics, X hours, riding X miles, etc.

It's virtually impossible, in my view, for a boy to calculate his hours, miles, etc by himself, especially since TroopMaster will not allow us to record that information in a trip (it's either a campign trip wtih recorded nights, or a hiking trip with miles, but not both)

Take note that a single high adventure trip which doubles the defined parameters of high adventure can count as 2 toward the award. Also take note that multiple activities on one trip count toward all badges (if on one campout you rode 5 miles, swam for 2 hours, and hiked 3 miles, that's creditable to all 4 badges).

 

I do not share your interpretation of the use of long term nights for the camping gold/silver device. The only limit on long term nights for the badge. There is no such restriction listed for the devices. The first 3 boys in our troop to earn the award all qualified for silver camping devices at the same time; and they all applied 15-30 nights of long term camping to the device (they all had multiple years of summer camp and the 2010 nat'l jamboree). I did not allow the boys to count nights spent indoors (our annual lock in, or the rare cabin trip).

The council reviewed and approved the applications. They were between 14 and 16 years old, so it's well within an active scout's reach to earn multiple silver devices in camping.

The ability for a scout to earn these is dependent upon his troop's program. Our troop goes biking with a 50-mile option every year. We hike all the time, and we go on long-term hikes almost every summer. Riding and camping are a cinch. The real difficulty, in my opinion, is the aquatics badge because of its inclusion of the Mile Swim on the base level, and the high adventure badge because of the amount of high adv a boy has to do (10 for the base badge).

 

So, if your troop camps every month, and your son goes with them, and he goes to summer camp, and throws in a week-long hike once a year, and some OA campouts, there is no need for you to start manipulating the PLC into calling father-son bike rides troop or patrol events. I think you're overthinking it.

 

If you are worried about the ability to earn it within your existing yearly program, then your son should talk-up the award to his patrol mates and get them all inspired to earn the awards, and then they'll want to set up their own patrol day trips and campouts to enable themselves to earn it. Maybe call the council and see how many boys earn it (very few if I were a betting man, mostly due to its clerical nightmarishness) and turn it into a prestige thing for the boys--even rarer than Eagle. ;)

Except for summer camp, that is correct. Was told it is because the school is closed and we do not have a meeting space. Since when does a troop need an air conditioned cafeteria to hold a meeting ? Not thrilled with the program at the moment. There are some good very involved parents on the committe and some good kids. There is a lot to like including friends.

 

The wake up moment came at a meeting last week where it was determined the troop could not take a canoe trip on our many close by rivers because there are to many drunk college kids out floating and we can't camp in November because of Deer Season. Not because they want to hunt, because of the risk of getting shot. ( on Council property ???). There are no patrol only activities or hikes or rides.

 

Looking at other troops. Many of the nearby troops shut down for summer as well. Does that offer a little more insight on why I was trying to determine boundaries of scouting events ? I have mentioned my son's issues. I can't expect him to drag a troop and lawyer parents kicking and screaming into the fold.

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The paperwork involved in this award is a capital-N Nightmare. To facilitate boys who want to apply for it, I've created a spreadsheet that keeps track of every trip the troop offers or any Scouting event that any boy from the troop attended (OA, high adv., jambo) going back as far as the oldest scout in the troop. First column is the date (month/year), then trip title (XYZ State Park), then a column for each badge category: Camping, Hiking, Riding, Aquatics, Adventure. In those 5 columns is recorded the applicable data; for camping X nights, aquatics, X hours, riding X miles, etc.

It's virtually impossible, in my view, for a boy to calculate his hours, miles, etc by himself, especially since TroopMaster will not allow us to record that information in a trip (it's either a campign trip wtih recorded nights, or a hiking trip with miles, but not both)

Take note that a single high adventure trip which doubles the defined parameters of high adventure can count as 2 toward the award. Also take note that multiple activities on one trip count toward all badges (if on one campout you rode 5 miles, swam for 2 hours, and hiked 3 miles, that's creditable to all 4 badges).

 

I do not share your interpretation of the use of long term nights for the camping gold/silver device. The only limit on long term nights for the badge. There is no such restriction listed for the devices. The first 3 boys in our troop to earn the award all qualified for silver camping devices at the same time; and they all applied 15-30 nights of long term camping to the device (they all had multiple years of summer camp and the 2010 nat'l jamboree). I did not allow the boys to count nights spent indoors (our annual lock in, or the rare cabin trip).

The council reviewed and approved the applications. They were between 14 and 16 years old, so it's well within an active scout's reach to earn multiple silver devices in camping.

The ability for a scout to earn these is dependent upon his troop's program. Our troop goes biking with a 50-mile option every year. We hike all the time, and we go on long-term hikes almost every summer. Riding and camping are a cinch. The real difficulty, in my opinion, is the aquatics badge because of its inclusion of the Mile Swim on the base level, and the high adventure badge because of the amount of high adv a boy has to do (10 for the base badge).

 

So, if your troop camps every month, and your son goes with them, and he goes to summer camp, and throws in a week-long hike once a year, and some OA campouts, there is no need for you to start manipulating the PLC into calling father-son bike rides troop or patrol events. I think you're overthinking it.

 

If you are worried about the ability to earn it within your existing yearly program, then your son should talk-up the award to his patrol mates and get them all inspired to earn the awards, and then they'll want to set up their own patrol day trips and campouts to enable themselves to earn it. Maybe call the council and see how many boys earn it (very few if I were a betting man, mostly due to its clerical nightmarishness) and turn it into a prestige thing for the boys--even rarer than Eagle. ;)

Well, you were asked to be scout master.....

 

You could change the program to meet your vision. Now is the time to start thinking about where you would like to be as a troop.....

 

Now I understand why you view the award as difficult to achieve. We easily camp 30 nights a year and have three or four events outside of meetings a month and twice a week volunteer opportunities.

 

Not sure what drunk college kids have to do with a canoe trip???? I think that is the case most everywhere......Just make your reservations for the first run in the morning......you will be far enough a head of them that it won't be an issue.

 

Our scout camps close in november for deer hunting.......Deer hunting probably isn't the entire month right???????......When there is a will there is a way to provide a program.......Worst camp use November as your holiday party.....Take them bowling or to an indoor shooting range or what ever they pick......the boys love the post thanksgiving backpacking trip....Three days......lots of fun

 

I gotta ask....So what does the troop calendar look like????

 

Taking the boys with swimming partials back over to camp tonight to finish about an hour drive one way...... From the text messages flying around looks like most of the troop is going........

 

The old fellow at the Dairy Bar will be glad to see us again on the return trip.

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Auspices means “under the support and guidance†of said sponsor, not during a sponsored event. This award is an individual achievement just like earning merit badges where scouts full requirements without having to be on scouting events. So scouting supports your son to be active in the out of doors and provides guidance on how to do this through the Scout handbook, filed book and earning rank and merit badges.

There are very few troops that would be able to provide such a program to its scouts to allow the scout to meet what is required to fill these requirements, so under the guidance and support of the scouting program a scout can fulfill many of these requirement with the blessings of the scouting program and guidance.

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The paperwork involved in this award is a capital-N Nightmare. To facilitate boys who want to apply for it, I've created a spreadsheet that keeps track of every trip the troop offers or any Scouting event that any boy from the troop attended (OA, high adv., jambo) going back as far as the oldest scout in the troop. First column is the date (month/year), then trip title (XYZ State Park), then a column for each badge category: Camping, Hiking, Riding, Aquatics, Adventure. In those 5 columns is recorded the applicable data; for camping X nights, aquatics, X hours, riding X miles, etc.

It's virtually impossible, in my view, for a boy to calculate his hours, miles, etc by himself, especially since TroopMaster will not allow us to record that information in a trip (it's either a campign trip wtih recorded nights, or a hiking trip with miles, but not both)

Take note that a single high adventure trip which doubles the defined parameters of high adventure can count as 2 toward the award. Also take note that multiple activities on one trip count toward all badges (if on one campout you rode 5 miles, swam for 2 hours, and hiked 3 miles, that's creditable to all 4 badges).

 

I do not share your interpretation of the use of long term nights for the camping gold/silver device. The only limit on long term nights for the badge. There is no such restriction listed for the devices. The first 3 boys in our troop to earn the award all qualified for silver camping devices at the same time; and they all applied 15-30 nights of long term camping to the device (they all had multiple years of summer camp and the 2010 nat'l jamboree). I did not allow the boys to count nights spent indoors (our annual lock in, or the rare cabin trip).

The council reviewed and approved the applications. They were between 14 and 16 years old, so it's well within an active scout's reach to earn multiple silver devices in camping.

The ability for a scout to earn these is dependent upon his troop's program. Our troop goes biking with a 50-mile option every year. We hike all the time, and we go on long-term hikes almost every summer. Riding and camping are a cinch. The real difficulty, in my opinion, is the aquatics badge because of its inclusion of the Mile Swim on the base level, and the high adventure badge because of the amount of high adv a boy has to do (10 for the base badge).

 

So, if your troop camps every month, and your son goes with them, and he goes to summer camp, and throws in a week-long hike once a year, and some OA campouts, there is no need for you to start manipulating the PLC into calling father-son bike rides troop or patrol events. I think you're overthinking it.

 

If you are worried about the ability to earn it within your existing yearly program, then your son should talk-up the award to his patrol mates and get them all inspired to earn the awards, and then they'll want to set up their own patrol day trips and campouts to enable themselves to earn it. Maybe call the council and see how many boys earn it (very few if I were a betting man, mostly due to its clerical nightmarishness) and turn it into a prestige thing for the boys--even rarer than Eagle. ;)

Without the support of the committee the SM is rather powerless. So if lawyer dads can't get it through their heads that their sons won't be horribly corrupted and traumatized seeing some beer bongs the trip doesn't happen. There is no single run on the rivers here, they would be unavoidable, I suppose.

 

Most of these boys are involved in multiple sports so scouting is just one of their activities. The parents have their eyes on one thing and one thing only. I am sure you can guess what that is. It is not adventure. It remains to be seen if the program is truly set by the PLC (That will happen in August) A float trip was on the calendar for May but was switched to a 4 hour bike trek. I was told because there was no coordinator for the event even though I had gotten pricing for it. There was a coordinator for the bike trip the same weekend. Get the picture ?

 

I don't know much about hunting, not against it at all, just don't view ambushing an animal from 200 yards away with an precision projectile traveling at 3500 MPH as much of a sport. I took one out with a 76 LTD driving down the highway, thats one elusive creature. Drop down on it from your perch in a tree and kill it with your bare teeth, now that's a sport.

 

Scouting for food does take up two Saturdays in November. Will try to PM calendar if the function is working now.

 

With out followers there is no leading. Boys can't follow without support of parents. Don't forget about all those Eagle required merit badge universities peppered throughout the year. Where do you think lawyer dad is going to drive his kid ?

 

We are not like some parlor troops with a VAN :) We need lawyer dad on board to pull the trailer with his SUV.

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Auspices means “under the support and guidance†of said sponsor, not during a sponsored event. This award is an individual achievement just like earning merit badges where scouts full requirements without having to be on scouting events. So scouting supports your son to be active in the out of doors and provides guidance on how to do this through the Scout handbook, filed book and earning rank and merit badges.

There are very few troops that would be able to provide such a program to its scouts to allow the scout to meet what is required to fill these requirements, so under the guidance and support of the scouting program a scout can fulfill many of these requirement with the blessings of the scouting program and guidance.

Yeah . . . no.

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Auspices means “under the support and guidance†of said sponsor, not during a sponsored event. This award is an individual achievement just like earning merit badges where scouts full requirements without having to be on scouting events. So scouting supports your son to be active in the out of doors and provides guidance on how to do this through the Scout handbook, filed book and earning rank and merit badges.

There are very few troops that would be able to provide such a program to its scouts to allow the scout to meet what is required to fill these requirements, so under the guidance and support of the scouting program a scout can fulfill many of these requirement with the blessings of the scouting program and guidance.

He does have a point.

 

Oxford dictionary

Phrases

under the auspices of

with the help, support, or protection of:

the delegation’s visit was arranged under UN auspices

 

If unit leader defines an activity then it is under the the auspices of the BSA. When a scout is working on a merit badge it is under the auspices of the BSA.

If an activity is conducted with a cycling club then it is not under the auspices of the BSA.

 

Does a unit leader have the authority establish a "venture patrol". Does the BSA have a minimum patrol size ?

 

I however think the best option is to find an active troop.

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The paperwork involved in this award is a capital-N Nightmare. To facilitate boys who want to apply for it, I've created a spreadsheet that keeps track of every trip the troop offers or any Scouting event that any boy from the troop attended (OA, high adv., jambo) going back as far as the oldest scout in the troop. First column is the date (month/year), then trip title (XYZ State Park), then a column for each badge category: Camping, Hiking, Riding, Aquatics, Adventure. In those 5 columns is recorded the applicable data; for camping X nights, aquatics, X hours, riding X miles, etc.

It's virtually impossible, in my view, for a boy to calculate his hours, miles, etc by himself, especially since TroopMaster will not allow us to record that information in a trip (it's either a campign trip wtih recorded nights, or a hiking trip with miles, but not both)

Take note that a single high adventure trip which doubles the defined parameters of high adventure can count as 2 toward the award. Also take note that multiple activities on one trip count toward all badges (if on one campout you rode 5 miles, swam for 2 hours, and hiked 3 miles, that's creditable to all 4 badges).

 

I do not share your interpretation of the use of long term nights for the camping gold/silver device. The only limit on long term nights for the badge. There is no such restriction listed for the devices. The first 3 boys in our troop to earn the award all qualified for silver camping devices at the same time; and they all applied 15-30 nights of long term camping to the device (they all had multiple years of summer camp and the 2010 nat'l jamboree). I did not allow the boys to count nights spent indoors (our annual lock in, or the rare cabin trip).

The council reviewed and approved the applications. They were between 14 and 16 years old, so it's well within an active scout's reach to earn multiple silver devices in camping.

The ability for a scout to earn these is dependent upon his troop's program. Our troop goes biking with a 50-mile option every year. We hike all the time, and we go on long-term hikes almost every summer. Riding and camping are a cinch. The real difficulty, in my opinion, is the aquatics badge because of its inclusion of the Mile Swim on the base level, and the high adventure badge because of the amount of high adv a boy has to do (10 for the base badge).

 

So, if your troop camps every month, and your son goes with them, and he goes to summer camp, and throws in a week-long hike once a year, and some OA campouts, there is no need for you to start manipulating the PLC into calling father-son bike rides troop or patrol events. I think you're overthinking it.

 

If you are worried about the ability to earn it within your existing yearly program, then your son should talk-up the award to his patrol mates and get them all inspired to earn the awards, and then they'll want to set up their own patrol day trips and campouts to enable themselves to earn it. Maybe call the council and see how many boys earn it (very few if I were a betting man, mostly due to its clerical nightmarishness) and turn it into a prestige thing for the boys--even rarer than Eagle. ;)

I would find another troop.

 

I would not be a figure head SM.

 

No way would I let one guy dictate the program because he has the vehicle to pull the trailer.... I would rent a truck or van for the weekend before that would happen.

 

You missed my point on the canoe trip.....You are at the canoe launch point first thing in the morning for the first trip......You will be a head of the hordes. My next question would be.....have you seen the drunk college kids first hand or is it second hand info...... You could take the trip on a week day as well.

 

Just sounds like excuses.

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I am not sure exactly what a venture patrol is????? I think it is Venture Crew that functions as a patrol within a troop......Guessing it would have to be all male.

 

So since I am my sons Scout Master.......If I were a game playing scouter, everytime we go fishing, hiking, camping, backpacking as a family I could count it as under the Auspices.........Naw....

 

I suggest finding a real Troop.

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I am not sure exactly what a venture patrol is????? I think it is Venture Crew that functions as a patrol within a troop......Guessing it would have to be all male.

 

So since I am my sons Scout Master.......If I were a game playing scouter, everytime we go fishing, hiking, camping, backpacking as a family I could count it as under the Auspices.........Naw....

 

I suggest finding a real Troop.

I know I have seen Venture Patrol referenced on this board. Usually a patrol of boys in the troop more interested in HA type activities that do their own thing, but not part of the Venturing program.

 

I do think having a clear definitive understanding of what the award committee expects for this award would be a good thing.

 

When a scout goes out selling popcorn door to door is he not taking part in an activity "under the auspices of the BSA" ? If he is wearing his uniform and does his good turn helping the proverbial little old lady cross the street. Is he not acting "under the auspices of the BSA" ?

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Auspices means “under the support and guidance†of said sponsor, not during a sponsored event. This award is an individual achievement just like earning merit badges where scouts full requirements without having to be on scouting events. So scouting supports your son to be active in the out of doors and provides guidance on how to do this through the Scout handbook, filed book and earning rank and merit badges.

There are very few troops that would be able to provide such a program to its scouts to allow the scout to meet what is required to fill these requirements, so under the guidance and support of the scouting program a scout can fulfill many of these requirement with the blessings of the scouting program and guidance.

King Ding Dong. So what you said about an organized bike ride tells me that if a scout utilizes this venue to put in the miles he needs to accomplish a requirement for biking merit badge it does not count? I think you are off base here in that logic.

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I am not sure exactly what a venture patrol is????? I think it is Venture Crew that functions as a patrol within a troop......Guessing it would have to be all male.

 

So since I am my sons Scout Master.......If I were a game playing scouter, everytime we go fishing, hiking, camping, backpacking as a family I could count it as under the Auspices.........Naw....

 

I suggest finding a real Troop.

No game playing at all. If the purpose of your son participating in these actives with you are for achieving the said requirement, yes, then it is under the auspices of scouting.

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