dual registration concerns

[ScoutNut 147]

How can you not know if the boys are officially transfered? Did they fill out transfer paperwork, or did they just disappear from your troop and reappear in the other troop? If there is a question of which troop they are actually registered with you should contact your Council Registrar.

 

As for the money, officialy, any money earned by the troop belongs to your Charter Organization. Also everything owned by the troop is actually owned by your CO. Your council will not get involved. Because your unit bylaws state that if a scout leaves the troop, they forfit all money in their scout account, I would not just go cutting a check, and I would most certainly NOT cut a check to the boys themselves. You need to get your COR and your Treasurer together and decide what you are going to do. Do not do anything without your COR's (or IH) approval (in writting hopefully). Let the CC at the new troop know that you have to go thru channels and they will just have to wait. Also let him know that if a fundraising permit of yours is canceled by him you will be forced to contact council. Threats, even veiled, are totally unacceptable!

[Bob White 20]

In that case he may be a member of the District or Council finance committee who have the responsibility to review and approve unit fundraising events. They have no authority over unit funds or how they are handled. The money belongs to the Chartering organization and it is intrusted to the troop committee to manage. The District has no say unless you do something illegal. Tell the gentleman he has no authority in this matter and if need you will report his threats to the District Chairman or the Scout Execuitive.

 

Bob White

[NJCubScouter 1389]

Again I am reading here what I have read several times before, which is that money raised by unit fundraising becomes the property of the CO. Unless I am hallucinating, our friendly local Scouting professional, Mr. Steele, recently stated that this is not the case. I forget exactly what he said was the case, but it seemed a lot more logical than the idea that the CO could, if it wished, simply appropriate funds given by donors for Scouting programs -- even if the donation is merely a dollar paid by someone knocking over bottles with a baseball at a fair -- or the 2-dollar profit from the sale of a box of popcorn.

 

DS? Help?

[dsteele 20]

Okay.

 

Thanks for the perceived nod of respect, NJ. Just know (and unfortunately I'm serious about this) that although the title of Assistant Scout Executive sounds almost impressive, my "office" is a cubicle in the basement of the Scout Office (just like the ones the DE's have) only I have a square hole over the cubicle in the ceiling. This is because the urinal in the men's room upstairs sometimes doesn't stop flushing and the water literally drips into my cubicle. It happens about every 4 months and sends me dashing up the stairs with a mop to clean it up ASAP. So much for the fancy title.

 

At any rate, the money does not belong to the chartered partner. If the unit fails (does not recharter,) the money raised under the name of the Boy Scouts of America reverts to the local council. Equipment owned by the unit reverts, with the agreement of the charter partner and the local council, to either the charter partner or the local council.

 

The district finance committee is responsible for approving the Unit Fundraising Permit (which is an often un-used document, but it should be used.) If the unit is meeting all the rules on the back of the permit, the committee should sign it. If the committee refuses, it should be taken to the council level.

 

In short, the unit and its use of funds raised by its members are up to the unit. If someone steals from your unit, you're on your own to prosecute, etc. It's up to the unit to determine the dispersment of Scout accounts, etc.

 

The council service center will be happy to give you some guidance and ideas, but ultimately the decision has to be made by the unit.

 

BTW -- I keep a golf umbrella in my cubicle to cover important papers when the toilet leaks on my head

 

Be Prepared.

 

DS(This message has been edited by dsteele)

[packsaddle 753]

dsteele, I am very sympathetic (by the way thanks for the info, I learned much from that as well) because my office shelves (constructed from an old packing crate) hold up one corner of my desk which otherwise would fall through the termite hole in the floor (my chair DID once, with me in it). Your tax dollars are safe here. But at least I'm dry!

[Eamonn 61]

Oh Well.

Here is yet another thing that our district / council is not doing right.

All money earning apps have and do go to the council service center. In all my time on the district committee I have never seen one.

This will be a big help as I'm about to become the Big Bad Guy and I'm going to remind the units that they can not go asking for donations.

We just had a case where in order to reach our community FOS goal we phoned any and every business that had ever donated.

One call was to a local florist. They explained that they were no longer donating money but would be willing to donate flowers.

At that time we had no need for the flowers.

However along came the council recognition dinner and we had need of a center piece. Pam my DE,who was the advisor for the dinner informed the chair (As it happened it was Her Who Must Be Obeyed.)to call the florist and remind them of their kind offer.

The call was made and the florist informed us that they had already donated to the Cub Scouts, they went on to say how upset they were that we kept on coming back time and time again.

Yes, a pack had gone begging and got a nice arangement for a door prize.

I think if we had the money earning apps coming to the district committee we could put a stop to this.

As to the Finance chair telling units how to spend or what to do with their money, it will never happen.

We have sent him to visit units that didn't understand how to make a budget.He does this as a warm and cuddly chap who is giving a helping hand. Not as a District Officer!!

Eamonn

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"This will be a big help as I'm about to become the Big Bad Guy and I'm going to remind the units that they can not go asking for donations."

 

So a troop isn't allowed to ask the local fishing store for a couple boxes of lures for "fishing day"?

 

What't the rationale behind this? Why is it okay for a Council to solicit millions in donations but a troop isn't supposed to ask for squat?

[dsteele 20]

If your troop has a license from your state allowing them to solicit charitable contributions (A fund raising license) then the answer is that there is nothing to stop them.

 

The odds, however, is that the troop is not licensed by the state as a stand-alone agency to solicit chatitable contributions.

 

Units are not allowed to go out any way they choose to raise funds.

 

There are multiple perils for the council -- and council troubles eventually translate into unit troubles, so there's mutual need for concern.

 

The reasons vary by locale -- but don't asssume that what you're doing that is against the rules is only against the rules because the "big boys" don't like it. Find out the reasons behind the rules. More people make sense more often when we ask questions.

 

DS

[packsaddle 753]

dsteele, does this apply to unsolicited donations? Sometimes during a fund-raiser (selling hot dogs or something) someone will just give us a $20. Even though we aren't soliciting, we don't turn it down.

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"If your troop has a license from your state allowing them to solicit charitable contributions (A fund raising license) then the answer is that there is nothing to stop them. "

 

Since the troop is not a legal entity, isn't it only necessary for the CO to be so licensed.

 

Makes we wonder if our public school system is so registered, they are always asking for money.

[dsteele 20]

Packsaddle,

 

Go ahead and accept the unsolicited donations. However, the donor should realize or be told that they are not (probably) donating to a 501 © (3) organization -- in other words, it is not tax deductible (probably.)

 

FOG -- yes, the CO owns the unit, but does not own the funds raised under the name of the Boy Scouts of America. Most individual units are not 501 © (3) organizations -- which is why there is no limit on troop treasuries and how much money they can carry from year-to-year. So I would not think that many troops would want to be non-profits in their own right. Have you ever looked at tax form 990? It's a pain in the tuchas.

 

DS

[Eamonn 61]

Thanks Dave.

The Pack in my case is chartered by a VFW post.

It would have been ok if the VFW had asked for the flowers.

But when the pack did so as representtatives of the BSA, they crossed the line.

Eamonn

[Bob White 20]

Clarification on the posts regarding who the money belongs to. DSteele and I have spoken on the phone and he will be posting sometime after me to confirm this. The money is the possesion and control of the Charter organization until a point in time when the unit is no longer chartered. Once the unit charter has expired the BSA and the CO determine how to use the money to benefit youth. either through a youth program of the CO's or through the use of the BSA.

 

Bob White

[NJCubScouter 1389]

So DS (and Bob), are you saying that while a unit is operating (in other words the charter is in force), a CO can simply arbitrarily say to the unit, hand over all the money in the unit's checking account?

 

If that is the case, I am just glad nobody ever told the CO of my son's former pack about that. We did not need the parent-teacher organization exercising that level of "ownership." Fortunately with my son's troop there does not seem to be any danger of that, the CO is fully supportive of the troop and the troop remembers that when it comes time for service projects.

 

Things like this make the "Friends of Pack xx" option sound better all the time... as long as someone is willing to make a meeting place available for free without being CO.

[Bob White 20]

No, the CO has the responsibility to be a thoughtfull caretaker of the finances. To make sure that the unit is functioning properly and that it's assets are used responsibly for the scouts in the unit.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)