district support for venturing

[Lisabob 13]

I went to a district membership meeting recently and we did an assessment of where we stand with regard to cub, boy scout, and venturing membership. We have stayed fairly steady over the last several years in each area. While other areas may have problems with padding the #s, I don't see that around here (we have zero LFL units either, by the way). Our coverage of total available youth in the crew age group is just over half of one percent. This doesn't surprise me. The only places I have ever seen crew members at scouting events in the region is serving lunch and cleaning up at district training days. I do know we have a special needs crew and that they have various outings. But I don't know what our other crews do, if anything. None of the crews have more than 10 members. I've never seen them recruit from troops. I know they do not recruit in the public schools. With the exception of the special needs crew, I'm told that all the others in our district are outdoor-high adventure model crews. I think these are all off-shoots from troops.

 

We've been asked to come up with a comprehensive plan to approach each of the segments of the BSA - cubs, boy scouts, crews (we have only one or two varsity units in the area and they are more or less self contained). With the venture crews, there seems to be enormous potential for growth. Hey, there's only one way to go, right? The question is, how to market the program to an un-informed public? How to find these people and hook them, let alone sustain them?

 

In this regard, reading through the threads here has been enormously instructive in what not to do. To whit:

 

1) Don't push for one-year wonder crews, or else you'll always be digging out of last year's hole when units continually fold and you have to start up twice as many new ones to get ahead.

 

2) Don't use camp staff as crews because there's no purpose there and they'll fall apart as soon as camp ends.

 

3) Don't view crews as simply an extension of boy scouting.

 

4) Don't create paper crews, such as at juvenile detention centers, etc..

 

5) Don't create crews that are simply a clique because they'll fade once the youth involved go off to college, etc..

 

I know that some of these ideas have, and will continue, to pop up. One suggestion at our meeting was to encourage area troops to spin off their venture patrols into nascent crews. Aside from the fact that most troops aren't running a VP, I think we'd face a lot of resistance from troops if we tried that.

 

What I don't know? What works? And we have such a small base of extremely small crews, that we don't have much hands on experience to draw from. No one on the district membership committee, for example, has ever been involved with a crew. In your experiences, what makes a successful district-level plan for supporting the venturing crews in your area? If it isn't working so well in your area, here's your chance - what do you want to see your district do, in terms of positive action, to support the program?

 

 

 

 

[Stosh 3452]

You make the most important point in your post that answers all your questions.

 

You identify all those things a venturing crew is not supposed to be but people try anyway and fail.

 

The scouting program never defines what a crew could be, only what it should be. It's proposed as a one-size, fits-all unit that answers the needs only those those certain crews that seem to be failing right and left.

 

The crews that seem to succeed are those that have a clear vision of what they want to do and then avoid all those distractions that seek to keep them from their vision. What happens if those distractions are the rules of Venturing?

 

I've been chastized for "breaking the rules" and often times, justly so. We have paper officers and go through the motions for training, but what we do, we do well and retain our membership rather well. We have just rechartered the start of our 10th year. For a crew, that's a lot of track record. We have adult leaders that were once charter crew members. That speaks well of our ability to retain members.

 

We have "venturing" members that are too young for our crew, so they are registered boy scouts so they can hang with the high school and college aged youth of the crew. When we accept as normal - early high school youth that won't hang around later high school youth, why has it seems to have it work differently for us? Sometimes it pays not to make up too many rules, it may stifle that which will work in some other cases. And expecially don't make up a bunch of adult expectations that the youth don't want!

 

I'm not saying we have the end all to be all. What I'm saying is: keep trying different things until you hit on the right combination for your youth in your place. Be flexible and listen carefully to the youth. They'll tell you what you need to hear. Don't offer suggestions for them just because the BSA said that's the way you have to do it. It's like an all venturing council activity. When they ask why my youth never participate I tell them my youth have no interest in anything other than what their crew does. Does that bode well for council activities relative to our crew? Nope. Does it bode well for our crew to focus on that which the crew enjoys? Yep.

 

I'm not suggesting at any point you compromise any of the scouting principles, ideals or objectives. But within the scope of the scouting program, you ought to be able to think outside the box well enough to answer the needs of the youth in your area. We thought so far outside the box when we first formed, our council was contacting national every other week to make sure what we were doing would be ok with the powers at the top.

 

So often we as adults worry about numbers, advancement, accolades and recognition that often times the kids don't need or even want. Maybe all they want is an adult that will spend time with them and listen to their hopes and dreams.

 

Stosh

[Eamonn 61]

what makes a successful district-level plan for supporting the venturing crews in your area? The District I'm in is a small district.

We are down to about a dozen Boy Scout Troops. Of this dozen only about three have more than twenty Boy Scouts. I don't know the age groups in the Troops or how active the older Scouts in these Troops are.

Back when I was a Venture Scout, the Troop had 30 -40 Scouts most of the time and acted as a feeder unit to the Venture Unit. The size of the Venture unit went down as low as 8 and was never bigger than 14. Later as the Troop grew over time the Venture Unit grew.

My point?

In most cases a small Troop can not support a Venture Crew. When a Troop of less than twenty starts a Crew with 5 or 6 Scouts, the Crew will die before it can build up a program that will attract non-scouts. If the Scouts remain active in the Troop it may never build a program.

Back to the question.

" what makes a successful district-level plan for supporting the venturing crews in your area?"

1/ Take a long hard look at both the Vision and Mission statements of the BSA. Spend time working on what they are saying and what they mean.

2/ The District Committee needs to make a commitment to do everything it can to help and support the BSA in bringing these fine words to life so they have real meaning.

3/ While the role of a District is to support the Council, it can do so by bringing in new members. When we bring in new members, it can have a ripple effect. New members have family and friends and if and when they see that Scouting works, they become supporters of Scouting.Some might just have kind words to say with their co-workers, some might want to become active and help either at the unit level or a committee level. Some might sell stuff or make a donation. Of course this only works with real members. So passing a motion at the District Committee that states that the District is going to meet the needs of young people in the community the district serves is a good idea.

4/Understanding that we all are in Scouting to serve the youth is very important. When we think that the youth and their families are here to serve the District, Council or who-ever is just not right.

5/ The Membership Committee does need to have a really good understanding of what is going on in the District. A good understanding of what the needs of young people are as stated in the Vision and Mission statement. Above all they must see their role as meeting the needs of the young people in their community as their goal, not starting new units or large numbers.

6/ Venturing and Sea Scouts need to feel welcome and a part of the District.

7/ The District Camping and Activities committee need to work with Crews and Ships on events where older Scout might be invited to get a taste of what they are doing. This is very different than inviting Venturers and Sea Scouts to participate in Boy Scout events.

8/ District Commissioners need to find knowledgeable people to deliver Commissioner Service to Crews and Ships. Note the word knowledgeable!! Old Joe who has been a SM for 25 years till the Troop folded and became a UC 15 years ago might not be the best choice!!

9/ DE's need to meet with the CO of all new Crews and Ships at least once every 3 months, better yet would be if the DE and the UC met with the CO.

10/ Before any new unit is started a careful selection of new leaders should be done and all new leaders should be trained. This of course means that someone on the District Training Committee understands the program and can present the training.

11/ All new adult leaders need to be counseled as to what they are letting themselves in for. The needs of these young adults are not the same as the needs of the youth in our other programs.

 

I could go on but this would be a nice start.

Ea.

[Stosh 3452]

And this dovetails into the point I was making...

 

Cubbing may be an extension for Boy Scouting, BUT Venturing is not an extension of Boy Scouting. If all a venturing crew is going to do is the same old stuff the boys were leaving scouting for, it's going to fail!

 

If the older boys won't stick around for scouting, why would they stick around for same old thing venturing? Don't people over 21 see this logic?

 

Council wide venturing events are nothing more than glorified camporees. Maybe they're at the YMCA pool with pizza instead of a campground, but the same old, same old stuff is still there.

 

I do believe the the Madison Scouts Drum and Bugle Corps is a venturing type unit that has been in existance since the mid 1960's. Like a Drum and Bugle Corps, my crew has only vague referencing with scouting type activities. We do camp outdoors.

 

A few high adventure type venturing crews might be able to survive in a council, but not many. However, that seems to be the tried and true style most crews adopt and fail with.

 

Stosh

 

 

[Eamonn 61]

I'm going to try and not get off topic!!

Many of the older Boy Scouts I talk with are happy with the Boy Scout program.

They enjoy doing traditional Boy Scout type activities.

They would like to kick it up a few notches!

They say that they dislike baby sitting the younger Scouts.

Large Troops might have the leadership and the numbers to provide activities that meet the needs of these older Scouts. - Maybe in a Venture Patrol?

What I see happening in our Council, where most of the Troops are small. Is that many Troops get a huge number of Webelos Scouts cross over. At times the number of Webelos is bigger than the number of Boy Scouts in the Troop. A Troop of 8 or 10 Active Boy Scouts sees 10 or 12 new members all at once and the baby sitting starts.

Most of our Boy Scout Leaders seem happy to do what they have always done.

The highlight of the year -every year is summer camp. Most of the Troops in the council will sign up for summer camp next year before they leave camp this year. Same week, same site and just about the same program. After a few summers the Scouts who remain have no real desire to return.

Many Troops do a trip each year. Some have a cycle: Year one: Washington DC, Year Two: Gettysburg, Year three:Wright-Patterson Air Force Base then back to year one.

This weekend trip and the week at summer camp is the entire program for the summer!!

This leaves nine months. District events fill in four months (Camporees and First Aid Competition) Some Troops don't meet over the holidays from just before Thanksgiving until after New Year.

I know a lot of older Boy Scouts who really do want traditional Scouting activities.

Of course some don't.

The big problem I found when I talked to organizations outside of the BSA was that I was unable to provide them with anything they wanted or needed.

The Church Youth Groups have youth leaders, they have a program and some have camps.

The Gun Clubs don't want the BSA rules and regulations.

The volunteer fireman have a junior fireman program.

Venturing didn't really offer the local community theater anything that they could get their teeth into.

Some less organized groups like the local re-en actors, did find a home.

This of course means that most of the CO's are CO's that already charter another BSA Unit.

Nearly all the adults in Venturing have come from Boy Scouting.

Guys and girls like me!! Many of us have no real special skills!

I think of myself as a fairly good all round Scouter. I don't know enough about any thing to offer to start a Crew which has a main focus.

Sure I can help anyone organize just about any event you can think of!! But until we come up with the idea of a Crew that has Diets as their specialty, I'm not much use.

I can tie knots, I can read a map, use a compass, know about sailing. But while I have taken the ship caving I'm in no way an expert caver, we plan to go rappelling, but again I know the basics, but am no expert.

Very few of the Scouter's I know are experts or have a specialty.

I have a degree in English history, but somehow I think a Crew based on King Henry VIII,might not attract too many female members.

So like it or not Me and people like me are what the BSA has available.

I really do buy into the idea:In the future Scouting will continue to:Offer young people responsible fun and adventure;

Instill in young people lifetime values and develop in them ethical character as expressed in the Scout Oath and Law;

Train young people in citizenship, service, and leadership;

Serve America's communities and families with its quality, values-based program.

I can do that.

To get the ball rolling many people like me will need help from the Districts and Councils.

Real help, delivering a real program to real kids.

I'm happy that jblake47 has found something that seems to work. As long as it remains within the vision and mission of the BSA. More power to him, but that's just one way of skinning the cat.

 

Ea.

 

[RangerT 10]

Ok I think there have been a few erroneous generalizations being made here. First most councils do not understand the Venturing program well enough to support it. Second, unless most of your crews are LDS units many advisors are not former scouters, in my own council I am one of the few scouters, except for LDS crews. Thirdly, Venturing IS NOT the Venture scouts or Explorers of old and are not supposed to be related to them. The councils that treat them as such will certainly fail with them. That has been what has been happening in many areas and why crews are failing, fortunately my council exec has taken time to understand what Venturing is supposed to be and most of our crews thrive. The exceptions are the LDS crews who run their unit like a troop and most do not even have five members. That is the reason Venturing is suffering Eamonn, you can't run them like troops and expect success the rest is just a smoke screen.

 

Blake is right about a couple of things, venturing advisors have no place at roundtables or district events, our crews are not made to feel welcome at camporees. We have started a Venturing roundtable recently on a council wide basis and we have 20 strong, thriving crews planning a series of council venturing events. We are a mixture of all different specialties yet we all have a common thread, a large number of older teen boys and girls who like to get together to have fun, share their skills and want to find ways to help their communities.

 

Eamonn, I am so sorry your council doesnt get venturing because if they did you would see what I am talking about instead of fretting over stats that do not tell the whole story. I bet Eamonn you have many specialties you could share with a crew if the opportunity was there. Contrary to how you may feel Venturing can work, the sky is not falling.

[Eamonn 61]

RangerT

I posted 11 points which points are at fault?

I think I understand a fair bit about how the book says Venturing could or should work.

One reason I opted to be in Sea Scouting was because I didn't have to work at trying to understand the program.

I'll admit to not being an out of the box type thinker!!

A pal of mine used to lead an Explorer Post. He works for NASA. His great love is radio. The post was a Radio post, when Venturing came along it became a Crew. In fact very little changed.

We have at the hospital where Her Who Must Be Obeyed works an Exploring Post which has been there for about 25 years. It is happy to be a Post and Exploring would seem to be the right place for it.

In our District we have the best Venturing Crew in the Council. The Advisor is an ex-scouter, he works as a teacher full time and at the local Caverns part time. The Crew meets as a School Club during school time. It is youth led the minutes of their meetings are posted on their web site. They do a lot of outdoor activities: bike hikes, camping, caving , rappelling. They ring the bell for the Salvation Army over the holiday. I'm not sure what or if they have a uniform. I have yet to see a green shirt and I've never heard about any advancements.

Crew 111 seems to me to be a good Crew.

Still Crew 111 came to be because Troop 111 folded and much of what they do is very much the same as Troop 111 used to do. The Advisor was a ASM in Troop 111.

They are now coed, the school only lets them meet once a month where the Troop used to meet weekly. As far as I know they in the 3 years they have been around have never held a Super Activity or long term call it what you want! I'd use Camp. This could be because the youth don't want one?

When I look at them I can't help but notice that their foundation is from the Boy Scout program.

Still it makes no matter as the youth don't give a care about the foundation they seem happy doing what they are doing.

I think the Crew is doing a good job meeting the needs of the youth.

They run the Crew with elected officers.

The youth plan and organize the activities.

But all of this was happening when Troop 111 was one of the better Troops in the District. Why it folded? Is for another thread.

I'm not sure if what they do should be called High Adventure? I'm unsure if they fit nicely into any of the Specialty Areas?

Gary their Advisor didn't rush into starting the Crew, in fact it took me almost 3 years to talk him into it.

When he did, he didn't leave his comfort zone, he didn't try to reinvent the wheel. He took what he was good at and tweaked it to work for the youth in the school where he works.

Sadly he retires this year and I don't know what will become of the Crew. It has more than 40 members.

Who knows maybe they will want to see about Sea Scouting?

Ea.

[Lisabob 13]

One thing RangerT said that rings true to me, is that there is so little understanding of the venturing program at the district and council level, that it is difficult to support the program. I see that around me, which is why I came here to ask people with a lot more experience (and hopefully understanding) for your views. With only five or six crews in our whole district and each of those having 5-8 members, and most being off-shoots of troops, there is little expertice to draw upon when creating a "master plan" for recruiting, let alone supporting, new members.

 

It almost seems to me that before we, as a district membership group, start focusing on recruiting larger numbers of youth members, we need to first develop some folks who can be good adult advisors to get crews off the ground. Not much point in doing a big recruiting drive among youth if you don't have program support to start with and all your new units flop as a result. So maybe my question ought to be, where and how to find adult advisors (without canibalizing existing troops or trying to duplicate the troop program)? But then, it's a chicken-egg situation too. No point in training a bunch of adult advisors if there isn't a demand among the youth.

 

 

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Actually I think RangerT (Welcome BTW) has hit the Venturing Connundrum. First he states ". First most councils do not understand the Venturing program well enough to support it." Then in the same post expresses the opinion "Contrary to how you may feel Venturing can work, the sky is not falling."

 

RangerT, if most Councils do not understand the Venturing Program well enough to understand it, then how can anyone say the sky is not falling? If the institution that is supposed to bring the program to the volunteers doesnt have a grasp on the program, how can they support those of us who do, or rather think we do?

 

I served as a Council Venturing Chairman, it was quite an eye-opening experience. I was asked if the Venturing group could function as "security" for a Council wide event and the person who asked me didnt take to well to my answer that Venturing was a program that was attending to enjoy the event, not work it. Then there was an outcry that few Crews showed up to the event. I guess the Arts and Hobbies Crews didnt see a reason to camp overnight, and neither do I.

 

I asked the Council Training Chairman if he could help with Training Venturing Advisors and was told, "we can't right now, your numbers dont justify it, but when you grow we will consider it" Ya know when our numbers grow, we wont need their help, its when we are small that we need help. I am a ADC for Venturing in my District. I am the only Venturing COmmissioner. I have asked three people to be Venturing COmmissioners and all three have declined. Thats the only 3 people who have delined anything I have asked as I generally only committments from people who I think will honor them.

 

I beleive in the Venturing concept, but until the Pros of the Council take the Venturing training and the Council Committee decides it will really support it, Venturing will go nowhere. Now, if you are in an area that gets Venturing support I am very happy for you and I my wish for you is to enjoy it, it must be great and I hope to someday share that feeling.

[RangerT 10]

Ok guys don't gather the wagons in a circle just yet. Let me tell what happened in our council, several years ago our SE admitted he was not well informed about Venturing so he felt it was his obligation to make this program work ( an unusual attitude for a scouting professional). So he researched where the program was working well and brought in some very knowlegable and experienced people to lead a council wide week long training program for Venturing leaders. Fifty adults attended from a variety of backgrounds. We studied all five areas of specialties and got some hands on experience with some teens who volunteered to try this program out for size. It was a great success and the most complete in depth BSA training I ever received in all my years in scouting. The SE even hired one of these trainers to the council staff and our Venturing is growing, even though some old time scouters hate the program and don't consider it to be scouting.

 

We as a group(Venturing) now have our own roundtables where adults and officers attend and exchange ideas, as well as plan events. If every council executive made this kind of committment to Venturing the stats would change overnight, like it has in our council.

 

Eamonn the only points I fault you on is when you say Venturing can not work as it is currently written and that teens are not interested in the program which is again not true. My council has proven it can and does work and with the right committment from the executives and volunteers it can be quite an asset to scouting when it is properly marketed and run by competently trained adults. We have arts and craft crews working with outdoor crews, sports crews, and sea scouts to plan some pretty awesome events this year. The response from the youth has been fantastic. Why is this so you may ask, because we do not run our crews like boy scout troops, no uniforms (unless they select one), no advancement is required but most have earned at least the bronze award and many have gone much further. If you run Venturing like an older boy scout troop it will fail.

 

OK OK I am off my soapbox now, I love this program as you can tell and it does bother me to see people malign it when they don't even understand it and will not even try to learn about it. OGE I hope I answered your questions as well, "If you build it they will come." All it takes is some real committment for Venturing to work.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

I know its a wonderful program, it's hard to build something that youth will want to come to if the Venturing Vision is not shared betwixt Volunteer and Professional, and that Vision is not being shared in a lot of places

[RangerT 10]

OGE

 

That is a very true and very sad statement. I feel blessed to have a totally different vision here than most Venturing programs elsewhere. It does take a shared vision for Venturing, and all scouting programs for that matter, to flourish.

 

My crew and other crews in my council have really proven to me what older teens can do taking on adult responsibilities and doing a wonderful job delivering what the crew members want and need in their lives, as well as wanting to give their time and talents to making their community a better place.

[Stosh 3452]

Ok, try this one on for size.

 

I have been operational for 9 years.

 

During that time no venturing commissioner (didn't know they existed) ever made contact with me.

 

I've never met the DE in person, but have talked on the phone.

 

My rechartering packet has always been available to be picked up at the scout office at my convenience.

 

My SE and DE has been invited numerous times to come to one of our activities and have never showed up.

 

Does this sound like a council that really takes Venturing serious?

 

30 years ago I was asked to work part time (work-study program) to form Explorer posts. I formed 43 of them over a 2 year period, carried the council 2 years in a row with their quotas and within 3 years after I left, all but 12 had fallen by the wayside.

 

It doesn't take much, but it does take something.

 

Stosh

[CNYScouter 46]

Lisabob-

 

It great to hear that a district is at least thinking about getting the word out about the Venturing program.

 

Venturing Crews now make up 25% of the units in my district but there is no support or even mention of them.

Usually we are just lumped in with the troops.

It took me 3 tries even to get something about the Ship into the District newsletter.

 

At the last roundtable the DC was talking about scheduling FOS presentations.

He read off the units that needed to schedule them.

No crews were on the list.

I know the Ship hasnt scheduled one.

There was no mention about Crews with the Popcorn sales either.

The Ship actually did go out and sell Popcorn.

For a small unit I think we did pretty well.

One young lady in the Ship sold over $500 but got no recognition.

 

It feels like we dont exist.

 

Over the weekend there was a Scout Show at the Mall.

Each display was judged and Trophies were handed out.

The Crews were placed in with the Troops. (the Ship got 2nd and a crew 3rd place).

 

It seems that our District level people just see the Crews as older Scout Troops with girls.

 

I have been working hard to get the Venturing Advisors together to try and get some District support.

I have gotten 1 or 2 other crews on board but most are unwilling to put any effort in to this, but all are complaining they need to recruit more Venturers into their unit.

 

I have been activity trying to get a Venturing Roundtable going.

We had one a few years ago but they stopped as none of the crews would attend.

It doesnt look like many crews are interested in attending one now either.

I think a good deal of this is because most of the Crews are not much more than youth groups that get together a couple of times a month to do their specialty with the adult running everything.

 

At the Scout show I was talking with the Advisor from our newest crew. Thye are a high adventure crew chartered by Gander Mountain (a great idea).

He was talking with a 19 year old young lady who works at the store about the Crew.

She had no idea that a program like this existed and will be joining this crew.

I have to think that there are mnay more youth like this out there but who just don't know about the Venturing Program.

 

 

I for one would really like to see ideas about promoting Venturing at the District level.

I feel that having strong support at the District level will really help out all the crews.

 

[Stosh 3452]

Ever notice how most of the discussion on Venturing revolves around numbers of units, memberships, quotas, and very little about quality of programming?

 

Is a paper unit of 50 people more important or more significant that a solid well run unit of 8-10?

 

Stosh