It’s already started...

[CNYScouter 46]

In putting a Sea Scout Ship together I was anticipating questions about what was the ship going to do, what nights do they meet and so on.

 

I have just had the second person ask me when I was going to have the yearly schedule for the ship done.

 

I was expecting this from the people who did not have a Scouting background but one of these came from the parent of a scout and the other came from one of my sons friends that is in a Troop.

 

I looks like I will be spending a good deal of time trying to explain and educating people on how the Venturing program is youth-run and youth-led.

 

[LongHaul 10]

CNYScouter,

It may not seem so at first but I'm sure you know that it is easier to teach proper technique in the beginning than to correct improper technique down the road. Don't stumble out of the blocks.

LongHaul

[Eamonn 61]

CNYScouter

If you are free over Memorial Day weekend?

You might want to attend The COMMODORE HENRY I. NYGARD SEA SCOUTING REGATTA.

I found that I'm getting a lot more support from other Sea Scouter's than I'm getting from our Council.

It would be great if you could bring a couple of teenagers who think that they might be interested in joining the Ship.

As I said to you in a PM there are Ships and there are Ship's!!

Some are what might be called more like Venturering Crews (OK I might call them that!!)

They don't et into the Sea Scout uniforms and maybe only focus n a specific area.

When we recruited a few Sea Scouts we met and decided what sort of Ship we wanted to be.

I'll admit that I cheated!!

I had copies of the Sea Scout Manual on hand, at our organizational meeting I had a experienced Sea Scouter (He drove up from Maryland and took OJ And I out to lunch!!) So in my own way I set the tone.

They decided that they want to be more of a general purpose Ship, we are going to try our hand at what ever they decide they want to do.

The Sea Scout Winter Training Weekend in Maryland was a big help, they got to meet and talk with other Sea Scouts and kids their age. They came away with goals that they had set for the Ship and themselves.

Some things were great ideas but just either didn't work or took a lot longer to work than maybe I'd thought. The Halloween Dance we hoped to use to recruit more Scouts turned out to be a Valentines Dance!! But they did all the work.

Not the most Sea Scouty event but it started them thinking this is up to us. We lost $40.00 on the event -Money we earned freezing our tails off selling popcorn outside of Wal-Mart.

They thought I was going to be upset. I wasn't, of course I'd liked to not have lost the money, but they learned a lot and it was their money!!

You are going to have to plan, organize and carry through the first few months, but you need to give the choices and make sure that they do as much as you feel they can take on.

Summer is going to be tough.

Boy Scouts will be at camp or in my case working at camp, we have NOAC,family vacations. Things can fall apart. If you only have a few Sea Scouts, your percentage of Scouts might be high, but still end up with very few. You need to find out what they want to do.

If you go full speed ahead and the events fall flat you will lose the Scouts you have.

We are working on summer 2007, sadly the Ship's Committee have said that they don't want to go over $500.00 per Scout which is not a big help. I was thinking of Sea Base, or Ireland!! Someone is looking at Canada.

One big problem we have is money.

The parents of our Sea Scouts feel that they have been fund raised to death. The Scouts are not good at selling stuff. This means that we have to do things like car washes and dinners, this eats into the time that the Scouts have.

I'm pleased that you went with the club, I think you will be able to get the Scouts on the water a lot easier than us.

I think I would come up with a list of ideas of things that the Ship could do.

We started with one meeting and one activity a month, it wasn't until they decided that they wanted to work on advancements that we went to meeting weekly.

You might want to come up with a tentative program from now until August or September. When you get enough Scouts to hold an election and have the Quarterdeck in place start training them. Then in September take them away for a planning weekend.Then plan for what you think is going to work? A year would be nice, but maybe six months is all the Scouts are ready for.

These are just my thoughts.

Eamonn.

[emb021 16]

Yes, kind of ridiculous. I wouldn't expect this from a troop just starting, other then dates like council events, etc.

 

That said, you COULD provide them something along those lines.

 

Find out what regular Sea Scout events occur in your region. Pick several that are nearby that would welcome a new ship attending. Also, lay out a basic three month schedule. Yeah, that might all get chucked when the youth come on board, but it will give something for them to start with and shut-up the idiots like that.

 

[SR540Beaver 116]

I just found something of interest on our council website. I'm positive it was copied from national. I've been around scouting long enough to know that the exception to the rule usually applies when new units are started instead of doing it by the book. That being said, it appears that the "standard" is for adult leadership to design a one-year program before recruiting youth for a new Crew. See below.

 

Organizing a new Venturing crew is easy to do. Just follow these steps:

 

A survey is conducted annually in community high schools to determine students' recreational, hobby, and avocation interests.

 

A meeting is called of key people within an organization, with a Scouting representative in attendance. The representative explains the Venturing program, describes the key volunteer leader positions, and plans the recruiting of adult leaders.

 

The crew committee and Advisors are recruited and meet with the Scouting representative. Responsibilities of adult leaders are explained. The Scouting representative also discusses program ideas and helps develop a one-year program. The crew's one-year program is reviewed and adopted.

 

The organization's top executive writes a personal letter to each young adult selected from the survey, or identified through other recruitment efforts, and invites the youth and their parents to attend an organizational meeting. This letter is followed by a personal phone invitation from a member of the organization to each prospective youth.

 

The first meeting is held, involving young adults, the adult committee, and selected consultants. Adult Advisors share the program plans with the new Venturers (youth) and discuss member involvement and leadership roles through the election of youth officers.

[CNYScouter 46]

The thing that really discourages me that the people in Scouting that have no idea what boy-lead means.

The Scout that asked me for the schedule didn't really suprize me that much. He's in the Troop we left where the SM and CC make up the yearly schedule and pass it out at the beginning of the year.

 

Yes, having the club will help us get on the water. I was thinking about starting with one ship meeting a month. Every Thursday night the club has "open sailing" where new club members (and the ship) can learn how to sail. I didn't want to push much more than that until the weather turned cold.

 

I do have one girl who is into target shooting and was hoping that this was something I could use to keep the kids interested through the winter months. I know we have a Venture Crew chartered by the Army Reserve center and another that does Civel War reinactments so I though we could get a shooting competition going.

 

The one problem I do see is many people see Scouting as only being a shootime activity and shutting down during the summer when thats pretty much the only time we can go boating.

 

I was wondering how long to wait to start thinking about electing officers. I would like to try and do VLSC in the Fall.

 

Another thing will be training. I just found out that are only 3 or 4 people that have taken both the Venture Leaders Training and TDC and I'm one of them. We've offered Venture Leaders training in the past but no one has signed up (I went out of council)

 

I have been trying to find Sea Scout events. The closest one I have found is the NE Regional Sailing Championships in Sept. which is about 4 hours from here.

I am hoping that some of the kids will be interested in going to this this. Some of the club members have said their kids are interested in joining and all of these have sailing experiance.

 

I have of the Winter Training weekend and want to put that on the schedule.

I would like to check out the Regatta on Memorial Day Weekend.

That's about a 9 hour drive from here though.

 

It looks like I've got my work cut out for me, but I think it will be fun getting there

 

 

 

[CNYScouter 46]

I had anohter question for the forum along these lines:

 

Any suggestions on a comfortable number for youth to start out with?

 

I was worried about not having enough kids but it looks like we may start with a dozen or so youth between the club members and few people my son and I have talked with.

 

We had talked about doing a mailing of the scouting families in the district but the DE thinks that we may be overwhelmed with kids right at the start in doing so.

 

 

[emb021 16]

Several things.

 

CNYScouter- please get the program names straight. Sea Scouting is part of the Venturing Program. We have Venturing Crews and its Venturing Leader Training, etc. "Venture" is a program within Boy Scout troops. Has nothing to do with us. Please don't use the terms interchangably.

 

SR540Beaver- that organizing a Venturing Crew is from National. However, its important to realize that the program of a Venturing Crew can be from a wide range of possibilities (outdoor? sports? art&hobbies? religious?). Not so in Sea Scouting. A Sea Scout Ship follows the Sea Scout Program. (otherwise, why be a Sea Scout Ship? Be a Venturing Crew). There is some leeway with a Ship's program (I know of Scuba Ships, but they still do the Sea Scout program, wear the whites, etc, they aren't Venturing Crews that do Scuba).

 

As to other comments.

 

A dozen is a great start. Be sure you have the adult leaders to support it. Ships are organized into 6-8 person Crews, so you can be starting with 2 crews. You should have a youth to be outside the crews to be your Boatswain (ie President).

 

Sea Scout adult leaders need to take Sea Scout Officer Specilized Training after they take the Venturing adult training. That's a 3 hour course given by Sea Scout leaders that explains the program. I recommend you contact your regional sea scout people to see if someone can come in a do this training for you, to get it going in your area. [ie, after YOU'VE been training, you can do the training]

 

Yes, sadly, there are a lot of scouters who don't understand boy-lead. Venturing is more youth-led then troops are. I usually compare it to (better run) OA Lodges. Please note I said *better run*.

 

I don't get were this idea of shutting down for the summer came from. I was used to it as a kid in Cubs, and it was a shock when I joined a troop and we kept meeting in the summer. Yes, some kids will be gone for a couple of weeks, but not everyone. Plus, summer time is your time for SUPERACTIVITIES! Heck, even Cub Scouts now promote summer time activities with special awards and such.

 

 

[Eamonn 61]

I think if you start posting on the Sea Scout site you will find that there is a lot of help out there.

Some of our Scouts are looking into Venturering awards for the late fall and early winter.

Eamonn.

[purcelce 11]

Welcome to my world of "Educating the Public on Venturing". It's a slow process but people will warm up to it.

 

 

[emb021 16]

"Welcome to my world of "Educating the Public on Venturing". It's a slow process but people will warm up to it. "

 

Your world?

 

I think there are a dozen or more of us who have been doing this on-line from day one. We're getting close to the 10th anniversary of Venturing, and I've only seen a little bit of improvement.

 

 

 

[CNYScouter 46]

Eamonn I was subscribed to the forums. A few months ago I stopped receiving e-mails. Now when I try to get to the forums I get a page not found error.

 

I couldnt agree more with the statement about "Educating the Public on Venturing".

 

The Terms Venture/Venturing do become confusing at times and are often swapped.

When I took Venturing Leaders Basic one of the other people taking the training was there because his troop wanted to start a Venture Patrol.

 

I have lost count the number of times I have heard from Scoutmasters/Troop Leaders My/Our troop wants to start a Venturing Crew.

Most adults in Scouting see Venturing as Advanced Boy Scouts and not as a stand-alone program.

One of the first things I remember the trainerssaying was that the most successful crews stand on their own and most do not have strong ties to a Scout Troop.

 

I see that the 2 most active and successful Venturing Crews in our council have no ties with Troops. The Army JROTC charters one and the other is a Civil War Reenactment Crew.

 

Some of the things that I liked about the Sea Scouts were that in the requirements, getting a uniform, what active means, and pulling your weight financially are outlined and not left up to interpretation.

 

The DE I have been working with has been very helpful.

I did have a problem about the uniform with him. When we presented the idea for a Ship to the Yacht Club someone asked about the uniform.

I said that it was suggested we adopt the Standard Sea Scout uniforms (Blue Work/Dress White) as we will need these if we want to attend any Regional/National Sea Scout events, which is one thing I want to encourage.

At that time the DE stepped in and said, No, the Ship could design its own uniform and did not have to use the standard uniform.

When I spoke with him afterwards and he just brushed it aside saying that we could adopt the standard uniform later.

I think having an Activily uniform designed by the Ship to use when the members are sailing and other activities is a good idea, but my feeling is that if we are going to be a Sea Scout Ship we should use the Sea Scout Uniform.

 

 

 

[emb021 16]

"I have lost count the number of times I have heard from Scoutmasters/Troop Leaders My/Our troop wants to start a Venturing Crew.

Most adults in Scouting see Venturing as Advanced Boy Scouts and not as a stand-alone program. "

 

Yup. that's a big problem. Another adult on-line calls this "Advanced Boy Scouts with Girls" (ABSWG) to label this misunderstanding about Venturing by too many [boy] scout leaders.

 

"One of the first things I remember the trainerssaying was that the most successful crews stand on their own and most do not have strong ties to a Scout Troop. "

 

Double yup! A BIG problem with this troop-associated crew is that a LOT of restrictions are put on this crew that prevents it from REALLY succeeding on its own. Boys can't join unless they are a specific rank (usually Eagle), the crew exists to support the troop and NOT for the Venturers, etc. etc.

 

"Some of the things that I liked about the Sea Scouts were that in the requirements, getting a uniform, what active means, and pulling your weight financially are outlined and not left up to interpretation. "

 

Ha! Some of the same things I've pointed out. Active requirements are built right into the requirements (no nonsense about 'be active', but gives a percentage), etc.

 

"I said that it was suggested we adopt the Standard Sea Scout uniforms (Blue Work/Dress White) as we will need these if we want to attend any Regional/National Sea Scout events, which is one thing I want to encourage.

At that time the DE stepped in and said, No, the Ship could design its own uniform and did not have to use the standard uniform.

When I spoke with him afterwards and he just brushed it aside saying that we could adopt the standard uniform later.

I think having an Activily uniform designed by the Ship to use when the members are sailing and other activities is a good idea, but my feeling is that if we are going to be a Sea Scout Ship we should use the Sea Scout Uniform. "

 

The DE is kind of right. Sea Scouts are NOT required to get the uniform, BUT as you noted to him, you WILL be required to have it should you attend Regional/National events. He seems ignorant of that. I know the National Sea Scout Committee is really big on Sea Scouts going back to the traditional uniforms (but I am very annoyed with them making certain changes to the traditional uniforms!)

 

You idea of an activity uniform (t-shirt & shorts I guess) are good.

 

My experience is that the Sea Scout uniform is WAY less expensive then any BSA uniform. Down here in Florida most Ships have all the adults in whites (you may see one or two in tans, maybe the same number in blues at formal occasions). Most of the youth are in the white crackerjacks OR in whites similiar to adults (used to be ok, but not any longer, but so what). For activities, its usually Ship t-shirts and shorts.

 

Get with The Ships Store (http://www.ships-store.org/) for your insignia and uniform supplies. You may be able to get uniform parts locally, but insignia you are better off with them.

 

 

 

[CNYScouter 46]

I guess the issue I have with the DE is that I have never said that I wanted to start a Venturing Crew that does sailing but have stated that I wanted to organize a Sea Scout Ship.

 

I just think its easier from the start to adopt the Sea Scout uniform than to try and get the Ship to agree to it in a few months.

 

I really like to see the BSA put out some training on how to use a Venture patrol in a troop.

Many of these adult Troop Leaders see a Venture Patrol as becoming an "elite group" or do not want to have older scouts seperated as it takes leadership away from the Troop.

So they want to form a seperate group (a Venturing Crew) to give the older scouts a place to go.

 

(Hey EagleDad, how about a paper on using the Venture Patrol in a Troop!)

 

I'll check out the Ships Store.

One thing I have been told is if I can keep this going is that a retired Rear Admiral and the Naval Reserve Center are interested in being involved.

I am hoping the Navy will do the same as the Army does with the JROTC Crew and give them their uniform (the JROTC Crew uses standard army fatigues and dress uniforms).

Just hoping I guess.

 

 

[emb021 16]

"I guess the issue I have with the DE is that I have never said that I wanted to start a Venturing Crew that does sailing but have stated that I wanted to organize a Sea Scout Ship."

 

Yup. Some DEs don't get it.

 

"I just think its easier from the start to adopt the Sea Scout uniform than to try and get the Ship to agree to it in a few months. "

 

I think that's a good idea.

 

"I really like to see the BSA put out some training on how to use a Venture patrol in a troop.

Many of these adult Troop Leaders see a Venture Patrol as becoming an "elite group" or do not want to have older scouts seperated as it takes leadership away from the Troop.

So they want to form a seperate group (a Venturing Crew) to give the older scouts a place to go."

 

If they don't want their older boys to go off in a Venture Patrol, etc, how is forming a Venturing Crew any different?

 

As to training stuff on Venture Patrols, no, there is nothing from BSA National, but several other people (myself included) have created PPT presentations on Venture Patrols. Several can be found at USScouting Service Project website.