secede?

[hal.jorden 10]

I know this will sound like an odd question but can a district secede and form it's own council?

 

If not, can a district petition National to be placed in another council?

[moosetracker 132]

Wow!!! That is major surgery.. I have no idea.

 

Gut feeling is that unless you are a very very big, and very wealthy district.. Creating your own council would be practically nil.. Think of the expense of buying a council building and the pay checks for the new Executives, and then your district would have to form a few districts.. I think you would have to own your own camp also? (I think)..

 

If you are dead center in the middle of your current council going to another Council would be hard, and whatever the circumstances before they allowed you to do so, they would have to find your reasons so serious that they would first clean house in your current council..

 

So it is just gut reaction, but I would say NO..

 

First would be do you have that much wrong with your current council to get national to intervene and straighten them out.. If it is the current SE that has you upset, normally they stay only a few years and move on.. Moving is how they climb the ladder.. (or descend it, if national finds them inadequate..)

[hal.jorden 10]

No, we are not a rich district but we are on the border of 3 other councils.

 

How does a district have national take a good look at a council and intervene?

 

(This message has been edited by hal.jorden)

[Eagle92 110]

HEHEHE this question came up in my district back when I was a DE. District folks did not like the SE at the time and wanted to join of of the two neighboring councils. We also had units talking about joining one neigboring council, and the county line was less than a 1/4 mile from their CO.

 

To be honest I do not know what it takes for national take a look and intervene.

[moosetracker 132]

Again, do not know for a fact, but my suggestion would be to get a petition together and have a large majority sign it.. The petitions should state the problems in your council that you want National to look at and/or why you would like to go to a different council, if they are not going to fix them..

 

If your problem is your council and not your District, then it would help to get other districts to also send in formal complaints (or be willing to sign your patition also).. That would show it is not a district problem, but a council problem.. Otherwise the response may be that you DE is fired, if it is only your district showing discontent, and all the other districts are happy little campers..

 

But, I am a lowly district volunteer.. There are many on here having been a DE or are a DE, that may know better how to log a formal complaint.. It definately must be way more then those within your unit that sign the petition..

 

Are you sure the anger with the councils' policies are that wide-spread, to get a successful petition like that going??

[Beavah 205]

Nah, that's not da way things work, eh? National doesn't have any real ability to intervene in a council's management, any more than a council has to intervene in a troop's management. Yeh can call and email all yeh like, da most you're goin' to get is someone calling the SE or council president just to ask what's up.

 

If yeh want to make a change at the council, yeh get your CORs and da members at large for your district to show up at the council annual meeting (or to call a special meeting of the council membership) and address da matter there. Yeh can vote down slates of officers, vote out members at large, replace the entire council executive board (board of directors) by takin' control of the nominating committee, rewrite your articles of incorporation, and (through da exec board) fire your SE.

 

Da organizations that charter scout units - the churches, VFWs, etc. through their CORs are the voting members of your council corporation. As a group, they can make changes if they choose to.

 

Beavah

[moosetracker 132]

Thanks Beav..

 

I knew what you said worked for the district level, but did not know it would work that way at the council level also..

[Eagle92 110]

I know for a fact that it can work at the district level. My current district is only 1 county and 2 towns in another county. We got the 2 towns b/c the units in those town had their COR complain. The two towns were closer transportation wise to the center of my district than their own. So they could easily get to us, go to our functions, etc than their own county's functions.

 

 

As for council level, you got to get the CORs invovled.

[NEPAScouter 10]

It's ancient history, but I know for a fact that at least one secession actually happened in Pennsylvania.

 

In 1970, the former Anthracite Council (area around the city of Hazleton) merged with the former Wyoming Valley Council (area around the city of Wilkes-Barre) to form the Penn Mountains Council. In 1984, the area comprising the former Anthracite Council removed itself from the Penn Mountains Council and joined neighboring Minsi Trails Council. To bring things up to date, in 1990 the remaining Penn Mountains Council merged with the Forest Lakes Council (Scranton) to form the current Northeastern Pennsylvania Council.

 

I was a kid in the 80's, and only learned about this through local scouting historians. I have no idea how it was accomplished procedurally, or even whether it is still possible.

[Twocubdad 665]

Secession ain't going to happen.

 

First, a new council is out. National has spent the last 25 years merging away smaller councils. I don't think a new council has been created (except through the merger of smaller councils) in that time.

 

Your district changing councils won't happen either. Districts don't really exist. They are only administrative subdivisions of the council. The council can decide to realign your district into oblivion today or as in E92's situation, tweak the lines to get rid of some squeeky wheels.

 

And even if either option were practically possible, I believe it could technically be done only with the approval of the current council. You think they're going to give up the money and members?

 

 

As Da Beav notes, your only real solution is to organize the CORs in the district. Having them show up for the annual council business meeting is the by-the-book route, but that won't get anything done. The results of those meetings have been pre-determined for weeks. If there is really the level of unhappiness in the district you suggest, the CORs need to organize and present a unified position to the council. I would suggest a letter to the council president and committee listing the issues/concerns/demands and signed by as many CORs as are willing to do so. Ask for a meeting with the Council president to discuss the concerns face-to-face.

 

 

[jhankins 10]

I won't be as pessimistic as some, but if you're serious, and you have a group of CORs, say 70% of those in your district, who are willing to put forth the effort, you can actually incite change within the council to make thing better.

[sherminator505 10]

Well, the District that I was a Scout in was in a Council it didn't like, so it seceded with a couple of other districts to form its own little council that was fed by mining money. That is, until the mining money dried up, and it was forced to merge into another council. This arrangement lasted another couple of decades until that council merged with yet another council and became too big, whereupon the district was "encouraged" to move back to the council they didn't like.

 

Good luck!

[bacchus 10]

Hal, what in the world did the SE do that was so bad you wanted out?

 

Sherm, what in the world did the SE do that was so bad that decades later the District still did not want to go back?

 

Just curious guys, because my Council and District seem so friendly and it's hard for me to picture a different organization style.

[sherminator505 10]

bacchus,

 

One of the things you have to realize about my neck of the woods is that the populations are sparse and the land areas large. In my experience, the "local" council has typically been a mass of well-populated districts in a single metropolitan hub, with a few other surrounding districts that encompass fairly large geographical areas with several counties and scarcely more than a handful of units in each district.

 

It is in this context that problems with the "disliked" council originated, as it seemed to many in the district that the council became myopic in its local focus and scarcely acknowledged that Scouting was happening outside the metropolitan hub.

 

The small council that was formed consisted of several rural districts that at the time were in mining country. When the mining economy fell off in the late 1970's, the council was no longer self-supporting, and so it merged with a larger council that dealt with rural districts more effectively. Then that council was merged with yet another council, and the district was effectively "spun off" back from whence it came, to the myopic council.

 

I hope this helps your understanding.

 

(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[bacchus 10]

Thanks for the insight. Would some more representation at the council level help the situation?