Helping Others -VENT.

[Eamonn 61]

OJ is working as a staff member at camp.

Before he took the job, he explained that he needed time off to attend NOAC.

The Reservation Director is also the Staff Advisor to the Lodge.

The Staff get paid bi-weekly. The checks are handed out on Saturday morning.

The guys attending NOAC were meeting at 0545. OJ and a few other Staffers arrived at our house last night.

The washer and dryer went into over-drive.

About midnight I asked OJ if he wanted me to deposit his check, so he could use his ATM card. He said that he didn't have his check and that they wouldn't give it to him or to any of the guys going to NOAC.

The checks are cut by the bookkeeper who doesn't work on Saturday. So I can't see any good reason why these guys couldn't have got the checks last night.

When I asked OJ why they wouldn't give him his check he said that the Director was being a real pain.

I can't help thinking that this is such a terrible example to show these Scouts.

It just doesn't seem to fit with "Help other people at all times"

These Scouts are for the most part the Scouts in the Council who are very active, they don't earn very much.

I heard the Scouts who slept over talking, saying that they will not be going back next year. These kids have paid their dues, many started several years back as CIT's working all summer for nothing, they are the "Old-timers".

We have in the past had a hard time recruiting a quality staff for camp. It's a shame that someone who should be going out of his way to set a good example has let the side down and his actions will impact the 1,500 campers who attend camp next year.

Sure I'm upset I had to make two trips to the ATM(My card has a daily limit of $500.00) and withdraw money for four Scouts)I'm not happy that $800.00 that should be in my account isn't!

I know I'm venting.

But just because someone was on a power trip -Come on!! I have to wonder where his honor is, it seems that the Scout Oath are just words.

Eamonn.

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

This is a good example of problem resolution within Scouting and Life in general.

 

The Director had two options, give the Scouts their checks or not give the Scouts their checks. With either choice, the Scouts were going to leave camp. By not giving them their checks, the Director felt that he/she was able to express an equal amount of anger or resentment for the perceived wrong. By giving them their checks, he/she would not have felt that there had been any payback for the perceived wrong. That is a learned method of justice. The problem comes in what I call the "Ping Pong effect" which always happens. The Scouts now must find a way to acquire the justice lost by not reapplying for Camp and you now feel anger.

 

There are always more than two options and ways to express emotions and to obtain justice in any situation. When confronted with a problem, and there will always be problems in Scouting, the Trained Leader will assess the situation and go to Plan B or C and/or realign duties (delegate). Once a person knows that the anger one has about the situation can not be fixed and the repercussions will always be multiplied, then an alternate expression is essential, so we work it out and go on.

 

There are the methods of anger resolution that are found within one's religion. 'Do unto others as you would do for you.' Taking one's problems to a Higher Power, doesn't change the problem but it may change the way it is perceived, therefore reducing or changing the anger. Once one asks for help, then an answer will be given. We must accept and sometimes reach out for the answer but it is always there.

 

There are methods of anger resolution found within one's own daily regimen of physical fitness. 'For every mile run, one small problem in life will be eliminated.' Working out on a regular basis does more than reduce one's waistline.

 

There are methods of anger resolution developed within one's own home life. "Honey, how was your day?" The importance of family sometimes is the only way to hold it together.

 

When we look around, listen to the news; listen to what is said at our places of work, in Scouting, at home, in church, from our neighbors, we will find more opportunities than we care to count to use all of the methods we have learned to reduce our anger.

 

and yet it is still a battle.

 

I hope a few reminders will help. FB

 

 

 

 

 

[Eamonn 61]

But FB

There was no wrong.

Everyone knew when NOAC was/is.

The R/D had been informed before camp started who was going.

I'm not at camp, I don't know if things are going good or not?

Much as I hate to own up to it, part of me is hoping that things are not going well!! At least this might offer some explanation to why the R/D is acting this way.

Just to make things worse the R/V is one of my oldest friends on this side of the pond, we go back almost 30 years.

I know that he is under a lot of pressure. The camp budget was tight and then the change of Food Service Companies, which came in at a higher cost.

Our SE left for a new job 2 weeks back, so no one is really in charge of the day to day running of the Council. So I can see that maybe he thinks that the sky is falling.

As I have posted before. I tell our Scouts about STAR.

STOP

THINK

ACT

REFLECT.

I feel that he failed the S and the T.

Eamonn.

[Lisabob 13]

Is there any hope that he might still get around to the REFLECT part and realize that he missed the STOP and THINK parts? (yeah, that's probably wishful thinking...)

 

One of the tougher life lessons that kids can learn is that some adults are jerks some of the time too. At any rate they might hopefully also learn that, upon reflection, those who are being jerks should/could own up to it, no matter what their age or power status.

 

Hang in there Eamonn. And I hope OJ and his buddies are having a great time at NOAC.

 

Lisa'bob

[scoutldr 732]

One of my favorite sayings is "We are victims of nothing but our own bad choices." (I made that up myself)

 

In my opinion, the Camp Director made a bad choice in hiring a number of senior camp staff, knowing that they would "bail out" later in the summer. If they held critical positions, it's nearly impossible to hire someone to cover those jobs for a week. Those with the misfortune to be attending camp that week will get a lesser program experience. Is that fair to them?

 

I believe that when a Camp Staffer agrees to be hired, it should be for the entire term of the assignment. (We once had an Aquatics Director who missed a week of camp because they "had to go to an out of council camp with their troop" - unacceptable in my opinion)

 

If they wanted to go to NOAC, then camp staff is not a job option, and they certainly should not have expected to have the payroll process altered just to meet their special needs. It's all about making tough choices and not being able to "have it all". On the other hand, the Director agreed up front and should have had a plan before he agreed to hire them. (Making some assumptions here)

 

From what I see, as a parent, there is nothing for you to be angry about. We are just seeing predictable consequences...an important life lesson. If they choose not to return to camp staff next year, the Camp Director also learns a lesson(hopefully), as long as he knows why they are not returning.

 

And just out of curiosity, don't the other scouts have parents with ATM cards? Sometimes our biggest stressors are from problems we take on that don't belong to us. Yes, we should help others...with "cheerful service". Remember that thing about "irksome tasks".

 

I don't mean this to sound hard and uncaring...just trying to provide an objective view. And I admit I'm reading a lot between the lines and may have it all wrong...

[BrentAllen 10]

Eamonn,

Was this the Saturday they were supposed to get paid? Did everyone else get paid yesterday? Hard to tell from your post. Maybe there was some other legitimate reason they couldn't be paid?

 

Speaking as someone who has difficulties dealing with these type situations from time to time, I often have to pull that Wood Badge challenge coin our of my pocket and remind myself - treat others as you wish to be treated & it's your move. Or forgive & forget. Or act like a duck and let it run off your back.

If the boys really enjoy working at camp, don't let this one incident ruin their fun.

 

If everyone else was paid yesterday, it was a bad example not to pay the boys. Maybe this is an opportunity to show they can rise above the situation? If the R/D did this to show his displeasure, the boys getting mad only plays into his hands - he gets what he was after. If they come back and act like it didn't bother them, hopefully the R/D will see his actions were petty and childish.

[Eamonn 61]

scoutldr

I'm sorry I just have to disagree with you.

Scout Camp relies on a Staff of Scouts.

I'm unsure if there is anything in writing, but we have as far back as I can remember always allowed staff members time off to either spend a week with their Troop, attend National events like NOAC and the Jamboree.

I agree that it hurts the camp. But it isn't like it's something new or that they sprung it on the camp at the last minute.

A number of the Scouts going to NOAC are also Sea Scouts, while a couple who weren't attending NOAC, did attend the Ship's Summer Adventure. The guys attending NOAC didn't, they thought it wouldn't be fair to the camp to take an extra week off.

I have hired people who have said that they have make vacation arrangements, when they are interviewed. I have always done my best to work around their dates and accommodate them.

Sure the camp should or could have said that they weren't hiring anyone who wasn't able to commit to the entire summer, but they didn't.

As for the other parents question.

The Scouts stayed till after Campfire, the reason they slept over at our house was that they live a fair distance away from where the NOAC departure was. We live only 2 miles away.

These parents thought that these Scouts would have their checks and would be able to deposit them on Saturday.

BrentAllen

Yes the checks are passed out on Saturday.

Maybe -Just maybe there was/is a reason why the checks weren't handed out?

But a simple word of explanation would have covered that.

OJ gave up his job at our local supermarket in order to work at camp. Sure he is bringing home the big bucks $165.00 a week !!

The supermarket has direct deposit -Maybe we need to let the Council know how this works?

Sadly the Scouts now see the R/D as a bad guy, I can't post what OJ called him and yes I told him not to use that word -But part of me agreed with him he was being a ....

Eamonn.

[CalicoPenn 729]

I wonder if the payroll checks were even available at the time. Who signs the checks? Was it the Scout Exec who is no longer there? Maybe the checks hadn't been signed and delivered to the camp yet and wouldn't until Saturday morning?

 

Before jumping all over the R/D's case, some more info might be needed.

 

CalicoPenn

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

A perceived wrong is one that a person believes no matter what the circumstances. The basic reaction or feelings of anger to the perceived wrong is the same no matter if there is or isnt justification.

 

It is what we do when we feel that anger that makes a difference.

 

There may be hidden things that neither you nor OJ knows about which could be a comedy of errors or a situation of problem saturation.

 

Maybe a phone call to an old friend would help both of you figure it out and more.

 

FB

[packsaddle 753]

I think I see Eamonn's point here. The problem was well-known, anticipated, even expected. There was ample time to plan for a way to resolve the potential conflict and in the end, no such plan or measures were made or executed.

It is possible that the director reacted badly for a variety of reasons. Perhaps he was merely frustrated and tired...perhaps, knowing he had not planned for the problem, his frustration was redirected away from himself and toward the staff. If so, poor management and leadership on his part.

And it is also possible that he had no other options regarding the checks. If so, he probably should have explained the situation to avoid the bad feeling being expressed here.

 

Regarding the conditions of employment, if the staff made this situation clear at the time of the hire, then they were in no way obligated to stay to the end. The director, by hiring them, implicitly agreed to this likely schedule conflict.

 

During the Arbinger Institute training which employs a wonderful little book, "Leadership and Self-Deception", situations such as this are made worse by persons being "in the box" toward others. This is clearly one of those situations.

[campcrafter 10]

SL

 

I see your point but comparing this with your story about the Aq Dir is not the same.

 

These boys who serve on camp staff and who are going to NOAC are the scouts who not only are most active, but also the ones who are the best Scouts and leaders. More than likely the cream of the crop as it were.

 

If everyone knew about NOAC and the staff members, going the RD should have made arrangements early on for 1) coverage 2) that the boys received their pay before leaving.

 

Life is too short for such pettiness. I see it too much in the "real world of business" everyday. And while we are preparing young men for responsible adulthood, we should also be preparing them to make the world a better place than it is now.

 

If we are victims of our bad choices are the troops who attend camp this week to blame that that made such a poor choice in choosing camp the same week as NOAC? That maybe something for troop leaders to consider in the future when planning when to go to camp.

 

Big E

 

Not only helping others but being a friend and brother to EVERY OTHER SCOUT!

 

You as always are to be commended for being a friend and brother by what you did in making sure all these boys had money for the trip. Be sure you get it back! The money you gave them will be gone when they return and a check waiting for them. And they are apt to forget. Continue the life lesson!

 

CC

[scoutldr 732]

As I said, I was trying to be objective and present all points of view, not place blame. For the scouts to assume that they could be paid in advance of their normal payday was a mistake on their part, IMHO. You know what they say about assuming...

 

Did they have an employment contract or other written agreement that spelled out what the pay procedures are?

 

I also said, "On the other hand, the Director agreed up front and should have had a plan before he agreed to hire them."

 

So I did not let the R/D off the hook. I do think it's a mistake to hire staff for the summer and then make exceptions that you can't cover with other qualified staff (such as with my A/D example - there was no NCS qualified A/D in camp that week).

 

 

[campcrafter 10]

SL wote:

 

As I said, I was trying to be objective and present all points of view, not place blame. For the scouts to assume that they could be paid in advance of their normal payday was a mistake on their part, IMHO. You know what they say about assuming...

 

YOU ARE CORRECT SL - The scouts should have asked early on for their checks to be handed out early. However these are boys and they don't think about such things. E's post however conveys the RD was being an

.... about it.

 

 

 

I also said, "On the other hand, the Director agreed up front and should have had a plan before he agreed to hire them."

 

MY APOLOGIES - I missed that.

 

YIS,

cc