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What do you consider the "extra mile" of service from professional scouters?

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RELAX it was just a joke. I know that exec's are way under paid.

My Vision about the future of Venturing is that there will be more Venturing Crews than Boy Scout Troops. And I will volunteer my time to make my Vision happen. If I was to be paid for it. It would be any fun. I am the Advisor for a Crew with 19 youth members and 15 Adults, growing every month. Est. Aug. 2000

If you enjoy your career. You are better off than most people. Don't take what hecklers say to you at heart. Most are just jealous. You couldn't pay me enough to put up with all the politics that professionals have to.

My advice, Do what you can and what you can't do find someone else to do it

Just remember the youth are the reason all of us do our jobs in Scouting

Leave a Legacy


Advisor Jim



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Thanks for the compliment. Yes, professionals are exected to participate in FOS campaigns, but usually the level of giving is determined by the giving professional staff member. I'll admit that mine is on the high end, but it's something I want to do.


Yes, we are a small council, but not the smallest in size. We're a class 700, and have 3 entry-level D.E. positions, my class 5 Assistant Scout Executive position, and a Scout Executive. We also have a Learning for Life Executive (entry level) that is currently vacant -- the duties of that position are currently being filled (and not very well) by me. If we had more money in the bank, we would fill the position immediately. But we don't have the money, so it will be at least January 1 before we fill that position.


Advisor Jim -- I knew you were kidding, but there are a lot of people out there who are serious when they make those comments that it touched a nerve. I apologize for "going off."


I applaud Volunteer Advisor Jim for his willingness to promote the great program of Venturing. That's how it's going to grow.



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"Yes, we are a small council, but not the smallest in size. We're a class 700"


Does that mean that there are more than 700 graduations of council size?


Why doesn't BSA merge a few small councils to make a bigger one. I guess we could ask, why doesn't BSA split my council into about 20 small ones?

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FOG --


Please research other topics I have posted under council relations. I have addressed council size and the number of councils in each category.


I'll recap it here for the casual reader.


There are 7 council classifications based on total available youth, number of professionals, number of registered youth (traditional Cub Scout, Boy/Varsity Scout, Venturer) total youth served (the above + learning for life) council budget, population, and a few other categories.


There are 7 classifications of councils based on the above: (smallest to largest) 800, 700, 600, 500, 400, 300, 200. The classification of the Scout Executive is assigned by the classification of the council.


An 800 council may have 1 - 3 professionals (sometimes it's only a Scout Executive doing everything) I'm so independant, I wouldn't be either disappointed or surprised to get one of those councils to serve. A 200 may have as many as 35 professionals. Size varies.


There are advantages and disadvantages to both. A 600 is considered a mid-sized council. I was in two 600s before I came to this one which is a 700. I have to admit that I'm used to having sufficient # of secreatries that I never had to label and take to the post office the council newsletter until I came here. Here, even the Scout Executive has been known to past labels on the council newsletter to get it out in time.


If I get an 800 council to serve, it wouldn't surprise me if I had to type the newsletter myself and lick the stamps to go on it. I'd do it with a smile just for the opportunity to be a Scout Executive for the kids. That's just the way it is.



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The answers to your two questions above are, in order:


Don't know.

Could happen.


Until a couple of years ago the classifications were (smallest to largest) 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56


Why those numbers? I don't know that either. I only knew, as I know now, what the numbering system is, what it is based on, and where the council I serve stands in the line. I also know the classification of other councils, but only because some of the reports from national are in categories by council classification.



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Dave, this is a wonderful thread. I've admired your 'style' since I joined this board, but this opened you up even more. Thanks!


I have been a leader in one form or another since 1976, beginning as a den mother (dates me doesn't it?) for my son's den. I'm female(like the name doesn't give that away). I'm currently an Activities and Civic Service chair for the council and a committee chair for a troop in my district, as well as a new unit chair for the district. I'm not a slacker, I take each of my responibilities seriously.


Some of the positive 'extra mile' stories I have would take up much more space than allotted, but a couple are:

A new DE and his wife arrived at my house to help sand and make 450 name tags for day camp. They stayed the afternoon and made a real dent in the pile of wooden nametags.


A FD took the time to pack up my gear, drive it to my house, and unload it to a dry spot after my husband had a stroke while I was on camp staff. I had to leave immediately and couldn't get back for several days, I was able to get my clothes, but he packed up all the rest of my stuff and brought it home to me.


I could go on, but space dictates my stopping.


What I view as a good working relationship between professional and volunteer is HONESTY. I have the privilege of working with many of the professionals in our council, due to my varied jobs. I know that I've volunteered my time, my effort, and my devotion to scouting, but there are a few that never trust a volunteer to do what they say they will. I'm sorry that there are those that don't, but I do and I feel it's more honest to tell me if you don't think I'll do the job you want up front, than go back and make comments that will undermine the position of the volunteer.


It's unfortunate that professional Scouters are forced to be on EVERY event committee, planning committee, and try to set up new units, gather membership, get the monies required to run the council. Is it a trust issue? Is it considered neglect if they don't? I feel that if you know your volunteer is trustworthy, honest, hardworking and will see the job through, you should allow them to. Going the extra mile here.......be honest when you are assigned to a committee as advisor, tell the volunteers how they may be better at their job, but do so gently through the chairman.


I've been thought to be to emotional, cause I cry at ceremonies for Eagle, for AOL, for crossovers, for James West recipient ceremonies, for the flag passing me in a parade of Scouts honoring the military. Is that a bad thing? Does that keep me from being a good example to the youth? Please don't discount emotion, sometimes it helps the boys to see what really counts in life to someone else. Please don't make fun at the very next opportunity.


Dave have you considered moving to the east coast? We'd love to have someone that cares so much about the program..........come on out!







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Thank you for the beautiful post. Yes, my wife and I would consider moving to the east coast. We would prefer to remain in the midwest, but she who must be obeyed is a graduate of the University of Maine (Farmington) and we would consider a move to the Northeast Region.


Southern Region is out, Western Region is a slim chance, but Northeast Region and Central Region are definite possibilities.



PS -- Sharon, cry when you want to. I do. Although, it's rare that Scouting brings a tear to my eye. Been doing it too long, I suppose. :)



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This could get a bit off track. Sorry.



what is wrong with "The Great Southern Region"?


oh, is the BSA website correct that current starting salaries are 32k ?


Most of us in the volunteer ranks don't really know what anyone makes. We generally are lead to believe that new DEs get paid worse than teachers (which would not be true in our area if that number is correct). We are also generally lead to believe that our council SE has a 6 figure income. No one really seems to know. That is just what rumor mill usually seems to think.


Oh, and how much of a bad sign is it that the council has gone from 8 DEs, an assist SE, and SE, to 6 regular DEs, one Learning for Life DE, and the SE in just a couple of years? (These are permanent reorganization things, not temporary vacancies.) That seems to be a somewhat bad sign of things, especially since we all keep hearing rumors of mergers.




Oh, and back to the Venturing issue. I would certainly like to see Venturing grow. Though it seems to be growing at the expense of the Boy Scout program in some cases. (Not all cases, just some.) That I do not favor. I would like to see all three major programs (does Varsity Scouting actually have a purpose anymore? are there any Varsity Scout Teams anywhere? I don't know of one.) grow. However, I am biased towards the BS program.


My personal least favorite change of a BS troop into a Venturing Crew is our council summer camp staff. It exists as a Crew only, not a Troop. That seems very strange for a Boy Scout camp. It also causes the staff troubles because many need new uniforms just to serve on staff. The story seems to be that staff wanted to set themselves apart from the campers a few years ago and decided that being Venturers would do it. It also had the advantage of allowing female youth to serve on staff.


Generally I am protective of the BS program. I see giving away some of the traditional BS activities to cubs to be an undermining of the program. If there are less new things for a BS troop to offer there are less reasons to bridge over. While cub scouts is a great program it can not have the level of effect on individuals boys that the BS program can, in my opinion. Also, in communities with a small number of Scouts, Venturing might be good for those that become involved in it, but it could still be bad for the program. If people leave the troop to join a crew (yes, I know they could do both, but many wouldn't), then there are no older youth to act as mentors and leaders to younger Scouts. That causes a vacuum in the troop program. That vacuum will decrease the likely hood of younger Scouts remaining active. Maybe I just have a one track mind. I see the BS program as being the primary program of the BSA. All other programs are supplements, supports, or additions to it.

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To answer the first direct question to me, there is nothing wrong with the "Great Southern Region" other than it seems that you need to be a Southerner to fit in and do well in that region.


This Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin boy descendant of yankee revolutionaries is anything but a southerner. My wife and I also have no desire to live in the South. Nothing against the South, we just like the midwest and northeast. Personal preference, nothing more.


Yes, it is true that starting salary in the BSA for professionals is about 32K. It's not bad pay. In most states it is in line with teacher salary (my wife is one) but in some states entry level teachers make more and in some states they make considerably less.


As to Scout Executive salaries, six figures is more than what most Scout Executives make. And in larger councils, where the staff is much larger than the one outlined above -- indeed larger than most councils in the country, your Scout Executive isn't making six figures. Some do, but they are few and most of them have been in that position for 10 years or more.



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Hey Dave, ever heard of Southern hospitality? We welcome everyone until they begin to try to change us into their 'norm'..........lol!


I didn't tie in my crying paragraph very well to the train of thought, but what I was trying to say was that some of the professionals I'm associated find it very easy to make fun of me on the issue and that I think detracts from the boys recognizing that some feeling is good. Not that they need to cry.


Thanks for acknowledging my post.



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