dsteele 20 Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 Silver-Shark: I apologize. I was caught up in answering the question and neglected to pass along my sympathies on the loss of your unit commissioner. I also confess that I was dodging what I was afraid would be a painful memory, but one that, upon reflection, turned into a good memory. When I was serving my second district, I had an ADC who was very passionate about his belief in Scouting. It was a two-county district that had 5-7 units in one county and 43-47 in the other (depending on the year.) I relied very heavily on my friend the ADC for the smaller county. He was the first one to slap me upside the head if he felt I was negleting "his" units. I appreciated his candor and appointed him my V.P of Bull in my little cabinet/cadre of extra-close volunteers. We bounced each other pretty good, but had a wonderful relationship. The last time I saw him was at the council dinner on a Saturday evening. He berated me because someone had read the charter partner as being a Veterans of Foreign Wars instead of the American Legion for one of "his" units. Monday morning he was found dead in his car of a heart attack. He had his nitro pills in his hand, but they never made it to his mouth. He was delivering his charter packets when he died. I know, the story sounds terrible so far. Let me hasten to the pleasant part . . . of a sort, that is. I've said he was a dedicated scouter. I mean that he made me look like a casual observer of the scouting program. I had heard that he was going to be buried in his uniform. Like many other scouters (volunteer and professional) I arrived at his funeral in time for the viewing in full uniform. He was in uniform in the casket. His wife and son walked to the casket with me. Gail was in his uniform complete with his wood badge neckerchief and woggle, but no beads. His wife was on my left and his son was on my right. I looked at his wife and asked, "Where are his beads?" He would never have been caught without his beads. Ever. She replied that he was going to be creamated and that she wanted to keep the beads. I didn't even think about my next actions. I took the beads off my scrawny chest and handed walked over to the funeral director. I whispered to him that they needed to be placed on Gail before the cremation so he could go with full honors. I didn't mean for it to be a big deal to anyone. In my mind, I could get another set of beads for about $9.00 as a re-order. It was a lot bigger deal to Gail's wife and son. In retrospect it's a big deal to me. Now it means that I helped a fantastic Scouter go into the next life the way he wanted . . . head held high and wearing the beads he so richly deserved. I miss him and look forward to the day we can see each other again. A little off thread, but it felt good to tell the story. It also means I should call Gail's wife. I haven't talked to her for a couple of years . . . DS Link to post Share on other sites
silver-shark 10 Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 To all... Your condolensences are greatly appreciated, and will be passed on to the family. Dan I hope you got a hold of her. I see those that have left us as the lucky ones. Those of us that are left behind have the tough job still to come. This thought process is a result of MANY scars on my heart from having it broken over the years due to lost family members and friends. I've got to re-collect my thoughts and I"ll be back later. Sorry Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 silver-shark, Sorry for your loss. Please pass along my & my Troop's sympathies to the family. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
jbroganjr 10 Posted June 6, 2003 Author Share Posted June 6, 2003 OGE - this never made it to the COR, who I am sure would want this scouter involved. I will try to find out the rest of the story, but I think it is the same ol, same ol, . This is a troop that seems destined to have a small number of scouts. Observed on my part is that the youth membership (excepting new scouts) is comprised mostly of boys whose parents are involved with the troop. To further complicate matters, this women was a dynamic cub scouter, won cub scouter of th year at our district awards dinner. the leader of the other den that bridged, was just told he is not going to camp, even though it was decided that it would be a positive thing to have an adult that knows the boys. The quandry here is that the pack that feeds this troop, in the course of one week, has just had a bunch of dynamic leaders told "thanks but no thanks, and I wonder the impact this will have on this pack. Link to post Share on other sites
SR540Beaver 116 Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 dsteele, I know this was not your intended purpose in telling your story, but you just went up a couple of notches on my respect meter. Not that you didn't already have my respect, you did, you just have more of it now. Link to post Share on other sites
SR540Beaver 116 Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 jbroganjr, While it would be hard work, perhaps it is time for a new unit to be established. Sounds like you have a couple of great people to do the job. I've worried about this same scenario. My son joined Cubs as a Webelos 1 this past September and just graduated to Webelos 2. He will crossover this next February. I registered back in April and have a pretty ambitious training schedule for myself. I've already done New Leader Essentials, Leader Specific Training, Youth Protection and CPR/First Aid training under my belt. I plan on doing Intro to Outdoor Leader Skills in August and Wood Badge in September, followed by Pow Wow in November. My hope and expectation is to walk into a troop with my son ready to serve in anyway I can. I'm not yet familiar with all of the possible troops he can cross to. But I have to admit that I have worried that we might end up in one of those cliqish troops that says thanks, but no thanks. That would be a shame when you consider all of the talk you hear about so many units NEEDING adult leadership and being unable to get it. Time will tell. Link to post Share on other sites
dsteele 20 Posted June 6, 2003 Share Posted June 6, 2003 KWC -- Thanks for the meter-reading. You're right that it wasn't my intent, but I appreciate the compliment. I agree that it's probably time to start a new troop. The timing will work out well if the people involved decide to do it. jbroganjr -- I can tell you that if you called my council office today and said you were interested in starting a new troop as soon as possible, you probably wouldn't be able to hang up the phone before your doorbell rang and there was a DE on the other side of it with a new unit application, five or more youth applications and five or more adult applications in hand. He/she would probably let you keep the pen, too! Okay, so that's a slight exageration, but not a huge one. It's a different topic, but sustained growth in membership in a district/council comes from new units. The BSA tries to motivate district executives to start and support new units. There are many ways, and one of the more positive is the Chief Scout Executive's Winner's Circle -- with a nice prize and lots of glory. To earn it, a professional must have a 2% gain in membership and a 2% gain in units on 6/30/2003 vs. 6/30/2002. If I were a betting man, I would put money on the odds that your district or council is very concerned about hitting those goals and the hour swiftly approaches. Starting a troop sounds like a huge undertaking -- it isn't really. It's probably easier than breaking into what sounds like a clique and living with the resulting fall-out for the next several years. And when super scouter's membership dwarfs the old troop's membership . . . there will be more Boy Scouts in the area than there were before. I don't see the downside in that. DS(This message has been edited by dsteele) Link to post Share on other sites
ASM1 10 Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 The person fills out a Leadership application and it is submitted to Council for National review. If it comes back clean, done deal. End of story. Bob White is screaming "no way" right now, but those are the rules. As a CO, I can only remove volunteeer members or leaders IF they show an desirable behaviour, or commit criminal activities. My question has to be. Why on Earth would any Troop turn away willing leaders? Adult leaders are SOOOOOO hard to find in the first place. ASM1 Link to post Share on other sites
dan 10 Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 A question was asked why would you turn away a leader? A few reasons I can think of. They do not understand the program and are unwilling to change. They think they are the leaders. Advancement over the program (paper eagle) Or in short.. They do not follow the program. If you are a Scoutmaster there is one way that you can limit problem leaders by not allowing them to sign off of requirments. This should send a strong clear message to that leader to change. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Please ASM1, I am not a screamer. I will state with quiet calmness that comes from an understanding of the BSA membership process that you are incorrect. The criminal check done by the BSA is done as a service to the charter organization and as a protection for the scouts we serve. It does not replace the responsibility of the individual charter organizations to select and approve their own leaders. The criminal check does nothing more than to verify that the applicant does not have a criminal history that would prohibit their membership. The CO still has total authority to accept or deny the membership once the applicant is cleared by the BSA, and thetu may reject that membership for any reason they so choose. Bob White Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Ditto to Dan. I have had leaders in my Troop who didn't follow the program & refused to go to training. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
Rooster7 11 Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 ASM1, First, Bob White is right. It is the COs right to determine who they want in leadership roles. Why on Earth would any Troop turn away willing leaders? Adult leaders are SOOOOOO hard to find in the first place. I can think of a great number of reasons as to why, even if the candidate passes a background check - The willing leader often displays anger. - The willing leader doesnt take his responsibility seriously. - The willing leader doesnt get along with other adults in the troop. - The willing leader demeans the boys efforts. - The willing leader wants to help his son, but has expressed no interest in helping other boys in the troop. - And of course Bobs favorite (as Dan has already noted), the potential leader doesnt follow the program or has expressed the desire to follow a different program. There are many reasons for turning down a leader candidate. Link to post Share on other sites
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