LDS Seemingly self-segregation?

[bacchus 10]

From another thread: "LDS rarely does go to roundtables or camporees. They choose to group all their units together and go to summer camp as a block, and just take the camp over for a week so they aren't with other types of units.. They really don't even want to do training with other types of units.. Then they do have their own different ways of running the program.. If it happened I don't think the LDS or the rest of the units would notice any difference at all.."

 

The units in my Ward go to roundtables.

 

We attend camporees when there are no scheduling conflicts, but then leave Saturday night. My personal feeling is that if scouts or units leave an activity early they should perform some service so they don't appear to be skipping out on the cleanup.

 

We recently attended another council's LDS week at Summer camp just to see what it was like. It was almost just another camp, but had just a couple local Stake leaders present to add some LDS flavor. I will note that the purpose wasn't to get away from other non-LDS units, but rather to be around other LDS units. There is a difference. Most years we just go to our regular council camp and are almost blended in, other than some of the Varsity scouts with Orange tabs. By the way, at the LDS week camp we went to, there were a couple non-LDS troops. I couldn't tell which ones they were, nor did I really care.

 

Training with other units is great. The larger problem is so much of the training is done on Sunday, and we try to avoid that. For some reason there is resistance for LDS leaders to provide the same training on a non-Sunday. I suspect the reason for resisting that is other leaders would rather attend non-Sunday training and it would reduce the Sunday-training population.

 

I guess we do have our own way of running the program. It's not outside the rules though. We have a scout troop for those boys 11-13 (these are acceptable ages for BSA in non-LDS units as well), a varsity team for those boys 14-15 (14 is the minimum age for non-LDS Varsity), and Venturing for those boys 16-20 (minimum age for non-LDS is 14, or 13 and completed 8th grade). There are some boys who are still in youth programs while a senior in high school but are 18. They can't stay in the troop as a youth member due to age restrictions, so it's a good thing there is a Venturing Crew for them. Most of the time when boys move to another unit due to age, they are dual-enrolled with the troop. Many times the scouts in my Ward turn into what appears to be a single troop and the other "units" appear like patrols, so the difference there is really semantics. Unless of course you come from the group that believes each patrol should be mixed with all ages.

[Nike 94]

When we lived in CA, GA, and NC, the LDS units never came to any round tables, didn't participate in Re-Charter class (on a Saturday), and were pretty scarce at day camp.

 

Here our LDS Pack and Troop really make an effort to attend area wide events and stay in touch with other units.

[moosetracker 132]

I was on staff for a Woodbadge with basically LDS participants as we ran it without a Sunday.. The people were wonderful, lapped up woodbadge, really excited about scouting. But, you definately got the feeling they were on an all time high, because they were finally with a group of LDS who WANTED a good scouting program for their youth..

 

The stories they told, and they pain to organize their tickets were sad though. They would tell the stories of the lack of motivation or care by everyone around them. Den Leaders & SM & CC tickets were easy.. Build a Pack or troop from something with no activity..

 

One CC I had didn't even know he was the CC.. The first week he worried over what to do, as he was a committee member and no one had yet to give him a job to do.. His assignment the first break was to work with his CC to find a committee postion. Came back told me he was CC.. I asked if he was just assigned.. No, he just didn't know he was CC.. Other LDS members told me that was a common occurance. Another committee member we basically had to get him to sign up with the District to do his tickets there, he was in an do nothing troop.

 

Alot of them talked about becoming a trainer, so they could do trainings for other LDS members.. I told them, they would have to discuss it with their district training chair, but being a DTC I would be fine with their doing the training as long as I could participate for a few training to make sure it was being done correctly and the course was open to anyone in our district or council.. In other words they could set the schedule to be LDS friendly, just keep the training open to all.. Well the open to all concept was a total wet blanket on their idea and no one used it for a ticket item. There was something about wanting to add to the training LDS specific stuff.. I suggested doing the normal class, let non-LDS out, and then do the special LDS only stuff..

 

This fall we are running our IOLS training on two Saturdays and a friday night, it is special for LDS attendance.. We will promote it.. Lets hope someone shows up.

 

We have no one at the camporee going home on Saturday.. At least in our district. But, there may be other districts that do.. I was surprised to find out a few I knew at council level and I worked with on WB staff who were LDS, didn't know it. I am sure their troops were making camporees, they just are not in my district.. I don't know if they feel self-concious about taking down and going home Saturday night, that keep them from coming out or if our district has troops in the same shape as the ones the WB participants were in (needing alot of help, and basically not functioning).. They just don't.

 

I think though that the WB course is going to make a huge difference to some units. There were units there where 80% of the adult leaders of the unit came as a cluster. Those guys are going home with 80% of their adult leaders now clued in to what a scouting program is all about, and they all will be working ticket items to improve the troop, pack or crew..

 

Again, very nice group of people.. People who wanted to go back and make a change, they had the spirit and the drive to want to make a difference.. But, if you told me I was running a WB program for people on their first week ever of being in a scouting program, I would have believed that was the case for at least 75 to 80 percent of the people in attendance..

 

I would imagine things to be different in Salt Lake though.. I would imagine with LDS being the majority, then most likely have training, camporees etc geared to them and their schedule they become more involved.

[bacchus 10]

Moose, our Ward was like that just a few short years ago. One guy made an effort to get some guys trained, and we had 6 fully-trained scouters at the next WB. We've become the flagship scouting program among the LDS units in our Stake.

 

I hope your group turns their program into something like that.

[Horizon 97]

Our roundtables are HELD at an LDS Stake (please correct if my terminology is wrong). They also host many of our District meetings as well.

 

The only conflict we have ever had was when my unit was kicked out of our week at summer camp because the LDS units wanted a 100% LDS unit summer camp week. I don't blame LDS for that - my issue is with how the Council dealt with our reservation.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

Several LDS leaders attend my Cub Scout Roundtable regularly.

 

Many of the LDS units in my district struggle because they tend to be very small.

 

Assigning leaders to Cub Packs and Troops has it limits of effectiveness as well.

 

But I have no issues with LDS.

[Basementdweller 608]

so from what I am reading....

 

Just like everything else in the BSA it is a regional kinda thing....

 

Our local LDS Troops Leadership chose to not come to roundtable, no big deal because less than 40% of the Troops and Packs attend any way.

 

The women leader issue, knew nothing about that.....

 

I did know how they age structured the program, my IOLS course discussed that.

 

Knew about the no activities on Sunday thing...

 

Round here the LDS provide training posted on the council site all the time.....

 

 

 

Ok I give up, so beyond the no gays issue, where is the controversy and why are they thought of poorly on the forum????

 

 

 

 

[Eagle92 110]

I was told by an LDS scouter I met at PDL-1 that the farther away from Salt Lake City you are, the less involved the LDS units are with the rest of the district/council.

 

I know I rarely see any LDS scouters or scouts, and when I do I am very pleasantly surprised.

 

I know part of the issue is the stake is based out of one council, so they do more with them than us. Or so I have told.

 

I do know that is like going on a wild goose chase trying to contact the LDS units for anything as their leadership is constantly changing. I remember trying to get a recharter packet to them, and I had to call 3 or 4 folks to finally get in touch. And don't get me started about RT, they never show up, even after calls and emails, that is if they are the right people I am calling and emailing.

[BadenP 93]

Eagle92

 

When I was a DE one of my districts were 25% LDS, my RT Commissioner was LDS, and they came to roundtables, camporees, summer camp, and district events as much as the non LDS did. The only problem was that they left camporees on Saturday night, but they participated as much as anyone.

 

One year I even had the LDS Stake President as my district chair, who was well known and liked by the entire community. This was in Northern California

[eolesen 10]

I think a large part of the perception of self-segregation comes from the units that have voluntold leaders.

 

While some called leaders evolve into highly energized Scouters, and stick around, too many seem to serve their term and move on. Because it's an assigned position, they're either not as motivated to put in the extra time during the week, or simply don't know what they don't know.

 

When I went thru Wood Badge, many of the LDS participants in my course were told they were going, as opposed to it being a deliberate stop on a personal journey. One said he hadn't even been thru the required pre-requisite training.

 

To wit, of the four LDS members from my 1997 WB patrol, I know of only one who may still be involved in Scouting. One is now a bishop (too busy to be involved with the troop) and the rest have likely served their time and moved on to other callings.

 

I'm not sure how you overcome that, short of using volunteers instead of voluntolds. Consolidating units in the smaller wards and having units at the stake level might also help.

[Eagle92 110]

BP,

 

I'm about as far away from SLC as you can get, being on the East Coast. We have one LDS church in our entire district, and a handful council wide.

 

Now when I was in Louisiana, one district I was in not only had an active LDS CO, but the bishop was the district chair.

 

Like others have said, one difference between volunteers and being called. In fact there are blogs about how some LDS folks hate BSA and being called to serve as leaders.