Why are we waiting?

[GernBlansten]

The little faith we have in big corporations is warranted. Think Enron, Exxon Valdez, any of the Superfund mining sites. Corporations don't have morals or souls. They are legal entities run by largely anonymous people who's primary interests are not in environmental protection or stewardship, but in profit making. What protection is followed is done so at the threat of regulation and litigation.

[FScouter]

Let's get some Boy Scouts to join those corporations. You know, "make ethical choices throughout their lives ..."

[GernBlansten]

There are many ethical people who work for large corporations. But those people only carry out the orders from the top. Its the ones at the top who face untold pressures to turn a buck and may stray away from helping his fellow man or environment. Profit is a seductive siren that has driven the best of intentions askew. Regulations and penalties are really our only device to keep them on the straight and narrow.

[packsaddle]

gwd_scouter, It's fun to take those strolls through memory lane isn't it? I also remember all that, plus wage and price controls (Nixon), odd and even license plate gasoline days, long lines for a 5 gallon limit, etc.

Fscouter, heh, heh, I've been told many times by people who claim to love me...that I look like Jed Clampett. But I have never had his luck with bubblin crude.

 

I think we've actually put all of our economic faith in the market and the corporations. That is essentially the decision we took in embracing Reaganomics and then continuing them up to this day, with a short hiatus during Clinton. OF COURSE the market will force business to maximize profit. DUH! This might lead to dishonesty or corner-cutting, etc. But the Darwinian forces of the market will eventually make the necessary corrections.

 

There is no such thing as an ethical business or a corporate morality. There are only human ethics and morality and the extent that organizations may seem to express these qualities is due to the human individuals who control those organizations. We have made the faustian bargain and if we are correct, the Darwinian mechanisms and market forces will select against unethical or unscrupulous organizations. What so many of us are objecting to is the fact that the 'unseen hand' doesn't care who gets selected. It isn't nice. It doesn't care about feelings. It has no moral sense.

 

I'm mystified by the rhetoric being wasted on ANWR and off-shore oil, not to mention oil shale or tar sands. Do people actually believe any or all of that will bring back cheap gas? Brings me to Mencken again:

"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people"

Perhaps we should prepare our children for a future cleaning the laundry of Indian entrepreneurs and Chinese industrialists. Oops, I see we're right on track.

[acco40]

Americans are the big foot of carbon footprints. I remember one of my college textbooks (late 70's). One of the chapter titles (you've got to love the combination of the 60's and the 73 gas crisis) was "The Engineer as a Drug Pusher."

 

It talked about how engineers invented the lawn mower. Then the self-propelled lawn mower. Then a riding lawn mower. Then a riding lawn mower with a canopy. Lo and behold, engineers then invented treadmills and tanning salons because people we not getting enough exercise nor sunlight. The net effect? Energy consumption!

[BulldogBlitz]

"It talked about how engineers invented the lawn mower. Then the self-propelled lawn mower. Then a riding lawn mower. Then a riding lawn mower with a canopy. Lo and behold, engineers then invented treadmills and tanning salons because people we not getting enough exercise nor sunlight. The net effect? Energy consumption! "

 

i resemble that remark (engineer). the net side effect to that lineage is job security.

[BulldogBlitz]

i'll add a couple of late cents to this discussion. i'm an environmental engineer. fourteen years of my fifteen year career have been spent as a consultant to refineries and chemical plants (as of last year, i stepped out of consulting and directly into a plant opting away from travel). i've been interested (as we all) in the price of oil and how fast gas shoots up. This is a multi-tiered problem, and finger pointing goes all the way around (as always).

 

The price of crude jumps $1. The corner gas station (which I am in sight of right now), starts the day at $3.859. The market opens, crude does the $1 jump, no gas delivery on this day - so the corner gas station owner still has the underground tank full of gas he paid $3 for yesterday. He's a corner gas station...associated with one of the big companies. He has one competitor on an opposite side of the highway so they aren't really competing in the micro-capitalist market. He/she gets the message that a delivery truck is on the way tomorrow and the price is now $3.15. He/she runs out and changes the price on the sign (and in the pumps) to $3.999 - mind you, still with the gas they had at $3/gal. Two days later, he's got the storage tank of gas that he paid $3.15/gal. The market opens, crude takes a $2 drop, no gas delivery, but he gets the message that a tanker is on the way and it is $3.05/gal. He drops his price to $3.959.

 

Price at the pump is overall controlled by the refiner. They are quick to pass along the increase from raw materials. On the micro level, the individual stores can opt to raise or lower their price - seems to help some of them lower the price when walmart is sitting on the corner with their murphy stations. Free market... they are quick to pass along the cost... slow to pass along the savings. These are the same guys that were crying (literally) in congress 10 or so years ago when the price of gas was hovering right at $1/gal.

 

now... as for why there aren't refineries being built. that'd be an environmental issue mainly. "not in my backyard" is a pretty well beaten drum. i'm always amazed that people will buy a house (or start a $$$ housing development) near a chemical plant and then complain that there is a chemical plant near them. this same plant can find it difficult to expand because the permitting process allows for public comment and concern. a new refinery would meet the same scrutiny. also, since they'd like to put the refinery near the tap, the taps in this country seem to have little room for more pollution - pollution which is inherent in processing of crude oil.

 

after last years spike in gas, i did some looking into the "why". speculation. crude is a publicly traded commodity of sorts. the price goes up and down based on speculation - speculation that a predicted busy gulf hurricane season will threaten houston's refining capacity... or other. Many of those speculations are overly aggressive. depending on which end of the stick you are on, it is a problem in the market (good one for some... bad for us in general).

 

who benefits from having $4/gallon gas today? big oil... sure. saudi... sure. bush... only if he is getting some kickback from exxon. democrats? (high oil price they can all point to bush and say "see, those darn republicans only want big oil to benefit"). the congress wields a whole lot of power right now, power which they refuse to use to tap reserves, do off shore drilling, etc. at the end of the day (or at the end of the day in november) we will have elected yet another politician. the basic policies will remain the same based on which party is in control.