THIS MEANS WAR!:The culture war is real and BSA is its Pork Chop Hill

[Gunny2862 11]

Ain't culture that stuff they put in the Cottage Cheese? or Yogurt? I h'ain't not never understood that stuff no-how.

Piece out!

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

[Hiromi 9]

You are right, Old Grey Eagle, that the Battle of Pork Chop Hill refers to a pair of related Korean War engagements during the spring and summer of 1953. These actions, occurring as the conflict was drawing towards a negotiated armistice, were controversial in the United States because of heavy loss of life in battles for terrain of no apparent strategic or tactical value. (One could say that the energy fighting the Boy Scouts can be seen as such a fight).

The first battle was described in a book of the same name by S.L.A. Marshall, from which was made the film Pork Chop Hill.

The first battle ended with a United Nations victory as the Chinese broke contact after two days of battle and withdrew. The second battle involved significantly more troops on both sides and was hotly contested for five days before United Nations Command conceded the battle to the Chinese forces and withdrew behind the main battle line.

 

So yes, battles can be won and they can be refought and lost. That is why vigilance is so important. Pork Chop Hill had no real military or strategic value- but it was the site of a conflagration between to beligerent forces. It had symbolic importance. It was a place where a line in the sand was drawn.

 

I thought it was an apt metaphor.

 

Pappy

(This message has been edited by Pappy)

[packsaddle 753]

OGE, heh, heh, down here we like to observe that one man's junkyard is another man's frontyard. Are you sure which one it was?

If you ever get down here again drop a line ahead of time. I'll shoo the chickens off the sofa and you can stop by to set a spell.

 

Edited part: All this porkchop talk is makin' me powerful hungry!(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Gunny2862 11]

Pack, have you ever heard a can of beer called a canned porkchop?

 

Reference to a similar number of calories, I believe.

[packsaddle 753]

Only for the stuff that supposedly makes ol' Bud wiser.

[GernBlansten 10]

Is this like the War on Christmas? Do I need to redeploy my defensive Christmas lights on the perimeter again? Dang, I just put them away for the season.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

I think it was near Winder Georgia, then again it could have been in the Florida Panhandle. I learned a long time ago when I order Ice Tea to say, Unsweetened Please which I know is akin to walking around with a big ol' "Yankee" sign on my forehead (no, I didnt take steroids, ever)

 

Is not Culture War a part of our history? When the original colonies got together you had Culture Wars. You have an Agarian culture in the southern colonies who didnt necesarily mess well with the more Industrial North (and this was in the Revolutionary times no less). Not all the colonies were formed by the same country, the Dutch of New York didnt mesh well with the English and then the Catholics of Baltimore and Maryland were not well regarded by the Puritans. There were Culture Wars.

 

During the 1800's the Culture Wars continues, as the country expanded westward, the more civilized "East Coast" clashed with the pioneers and there were competing priorities. Of course the Civil War/War of Northern Agression/War Between the States was the ultimate culture clash on a scale not nearly approached until the 1960's.

 

The end of the 19th Century saw huge immigration and each ethnic group took its turn as the lowest of the low. Signs of Help Wanted had the tag line, "Irish Need Not Apply". The Irish were shut out of muncipal jobs, but now the Irish cop is a given. Each group brought their own traditions and cultures to the US. The Germans gave us the Christmas Tree. Each group changed the way things were done. As the 20th Century developed there was movement from the farms to the cities and again Culture changed. During the prohibition, CUlture REALLY changed. OK, today alchohol is ok and legal, tomorrow it isnt but just wait, soon it will be back. Was it not the culture of the era that caused that to happen? There was a time was cocaine was part of the pause that refreshes, marijuana was sold legally, was it not culture that made these substances illegal? I remember hard liquor being sold on TV as well as Edie Adams singing about cigars, these are no longer on TV, it was a culture war that took them off the air.

 

The 1968 Democratic Convention was a clash of Cultures, youth and change versus the way things were.

 

Change in the country's culture has been constant (irony anyone?)

 

So, you dont think Scouting, starting in 1910 was never a part of a Culture War? In the greatest movie ever made, Whitey refers to Troop 1 Hickory as a bunch of daisy pickin' momma's boys. And was prior to WWII. In the 1960's, the BSA was under attack much more than today and it was the youth attacking it. It wasnt the coolest thing in the world to be an Eagle Scout in 1969, even though I have the Eagle Card with Nixon's signature on it. I remember when a Cub Scout proclaimed he was "square", which would never have made Maynard G Krebs very happy. The term square was dropped from Cub Scouts because of the Culture War at the time. Cultures change as nothing is static, an institution can change without compromising its values if its members beleive in those values.

 

At some point during this election cycle, I have no doubts that some candidate will proclaim, if he/she already hasnt, that this is the most important election in this generation, just as 2004, 2000, 1998, 1994, 1990 all were. Sometimes we need to reject hyperbole and discuss matters that actually matter

[le Voyageur 72]

First, there are two Souths. The one as seen in Gone with the Wing, and Gods and Generals. The second, the Appalachin South, think Brave Heart.

 

As for culture wars, Manifest Destiny still keeps us an invisible people.

 

However, this thread is nothing more then another cut and paste rant by Pappy...

[Bob White 20]

Pappy wrote "Hey Bob, How do you know how much luck I have been having with my scouting unit?"

 

I got it from reading your posts. You said the unit was 3 years old and 5 years old in different posts, and that you had 20 youth a third of which were Boy Scouts. So that's about 7 boys after three to 5 years.

 

And you posted that those numbers were diminishing, (and you suggested that that is partially do to the council merging 15 years ago).

 

So maybe a cultural war is not the biggest problem the unit you serve is dealing with? Perhaps delivering the values of scouting through the prescribed Aims and Methods of Scouting could solve both your problems of membership growth and cultural change?

[Hiromi 9]

HI Bob,

 

I have a pretty moderately successful unit for my area. I have seen two packs dissolve over the same period of time in my town. Some long established by the book troops have had plummeting numbers.

 

I only blame myself for my numbers (Average of 20- currently 20)- not the culture war. Before I took over the Pack and formed a Troop where none had ever existed scouting was pretty much non existent at my CO. Now we have a highly visible after-school scouting program. While our older boy retention is not high, we are pulling more and more tigers and cubs into our unit then ever before and this year we are bifurcating the unit so the boy scouts have a more independent Patrol group and only a partial Denner function.

 

But like I told you- I only recruit from my CO population and the home school community through word of mouth. In that regards, I have 1/8th the male population of grades 1 through 8. I don't know how that compares to national statistics for a grade school. But like I said, around here it is like a scouting dessert.

 

But if you noticed Bob, I never ask you about how you run a troop. I take whatever ideas you have to share based on their merits, not on what kind of a Scoutmaster I think you might be.

 

And if your answer to the culture war is to run a Boy Scout Troop by adhering to the Aims and Methods of Scouting manual, then thanks for your contribution to this thread. That is certainly doing your part in forming boys into men.

 

Pappy

 

 

 

[Bob White 20]

What? 20 Boy Scouts? That is not what you said before. You wrote "I have retained on average about 20 scouts over 5 years, 2/3 always being cub, the other BS"

 

1/3 of twenty is only about 7 Boy Scouts. Isn't it?

 

I think perhaps you are fighting the wrong war.

 

 

[Beavah 205]

Yah, in a Catholic School of about 200 boys K-8, Pappy's got a pool of about 100 boys to draw from. Assumin' the home schoolers make up for kindergarten. That's one class per grade level, and as we all know boys tend to run in clumps, so I reckon there's some years where he doesn't get/keep any of the 12 boys or so in the grade. Heck, just a conflict with the middle school basketball team could wipe him out, eh?

 

20% of Total Available Youth ain't a bad percentage as BSA statistics goes. Most troops that grow larger do so not by increasin' % of TAY, but by increasin' the pool - recruiting from public schools or the church population who attend public schools. But that doesn't seem like the CO's intent in this case, eh? They want it closely tied to the church and the church school.

 

I reckon gettin' and keepin' 20% of our total available recruitin' pool is better than almost any of us have done as Scouters, includin' BobWhite.

 

Beavah

 

[Eamonn 61]

Where the heck is Boy George, when we need him?

Ea.

[Bob White 20]

Hmmm must be that new math I heard about.

 

If there are 9 grade levels and 200 boys that averages 22.22 boys per grade. Since Kindergarden is not eligible for scouts that leaves 8 eligible grade levels, multiplied by 22.22 gives us approx. 176 eligible youth (not 100) which is 11% penetration...not 20%.

 

If the 6th through 8th grade is eligible for Boy Scouts that is an avearage of 67 boys of which approx. 7 of whom according to Pappy are Boy Scouts so that is about 10% penetration for Boy Scouts.

 

He is still fighting the wrong battle it seems.

[acco40 95]

OGE & Packsaddle - do you know how to tell a rich Georgian? Count how many cars he has up on blocks!

 

BW is in all probably correct. We should concentrate our efforts to improving our own units (oops - the units to which we belong ) and quit pontificating on these forums. But oh, it is so much fun!