He Made a Mistake - Will You Turn Your Back on Him?

[evmori 11]

Let's see. Smoking marijuana which is an illegal drug. How does that fit with the Scout Oath & Law?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Rikki12 10]

Yes, Beavah. Smoking a joint is against the law, but so is speeding, and running red lights and stop signs. There is no way you are going to convince me that every single PAID BSAer has not done one of those. Exceeding the speed limit seems to be a national past time. Does that mean that every single person that has received a speeding ticket or a parking ticket should be banned from scouts for life? Is that form of a legal violation less bad than a joint? What about underage drinking? Are you telling me that not a single adult member of BSA ever had an alcholic drink as a minor?

And let's face it. Smoking a joint is not an isolated incident. A poll in 2003 found out that 47% of Americans have tried pot at least once. And the percentage for 18 - 29 year olds is almost the same as for 30 - 49 year olds (46% and 45%, respectively) (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m4021/is_5_25/ai_102102598). How many 30 - 49 year olds are there in paid positions?

According to the Virginia Education Association, "If parents and middle and high school teachers and principals want to find out why teenagers' drug use has soared in the past five years, the first place they should look is in the mirror. Teen pot smoking is up almost 300 percent since 1992, and use of other illegal drugs such as acid, cocaine and heroin, as well as drinking and smoking, also has increased.

The recent survey of teenagers, teachers and principals by the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University provides disturbing insights as to why. For the fourth straight year, 12- to 17-year-olds rate drugs their most important problem, dwarfing violence, sex and social pressures. For the third straight year, the percentage of high school students who report that drugs are used, kept and sold at their schools has risen, to 78 percent in 1998. For the first time, more than half of middle-schoolers (that includes sixth-graders) report that drugs are used, kept and sold at their schools. " (http://www.veaweteach.org/resources_parents_detail.asp?ContentID=413)

As CBS News reported on August 16th "The percentage of teens who say they attend high schools with drug problems has increased from 44 percent to 61 percent since 2002, and the percentage in middle schools has increased from 19 percent to 31 percent, according to the survey to be released Thursday by Columbia University's National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse. And such activity is not easily hidden: The study has found that eight in 10 high schoolers and 44 percent of middle schoolers have witnessed illegal drug use, dealing or possession, or have seen students high or drunk on school grounds. " (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/16/health/main3173660.shtml)

 I do not condone what this boy did, but I also think it is down right stupid to revoke his membership. Do you think it is going to make him think twice about doing it again? No. Even parents that talk to their kids, are involved in their lives, and in their scouting programs might just still have a kid give into peer pressure and do something stupid. Instead of having the scouting program available to the kid and to help steer him in the right direction, he gets the message loud and clear that he is not worthy. If anyone feels unworthy, are they going to be likely to continue down the straight and narrow. No, they will go to where they can find acceptance even if it with those that will lead them down an illicit path.

So if I hear you correctly, even if you do not believe everyone should be executed for their first failing, you are unwilling to stand up and be heard. Would you reach your hand out to this boy and say "Yup, that was stupid. Now let's find a better route."?

The message that I am getting out of all of this is that Crime Does Pay. Just look at all the scandels and the perpetrators that have gone from one scandel and repeated it at another organzation. That and let's not worry about the other guy. Just make sure you get your own.

Is my cynacism showing? Sorry.

[Rikki12 10]

Dear Beavah,

 

Once again, you overlook the obvious. Unlike the camp staff that was expected to provide training, supervision, and interaction and was lacking in all areas, the boy did take responsibility for his actions. What he did was wrong. No two ways about it. And the boy was punished in multiple arenas.

 

All I was saying was that revoking his membership is overkill and sends the wrong message to everyone around him. If you make a mistake, LIE. If you make a mistake you are unworthy to breathe the same air.

 

But now I hear you have a bigger message. Boys with disabilities are not worthy either and should not be given the opportunity to learn how to control their impulses with loving and caring adults. Thank goodness he doesn't have you as a troop leader.

[packsaddle 753]

We're getting close to some adverse personal interactions here so I'll inject a request for calm thinking.

Beavah has, I think, misinterpreted some of Rikki12's thoughts and Rikki12, I think, may be upping the ante, so-to-speak, in response to Beavah. This is puzzling because I think they share some common ground.

Beavah, I think, has sincere interest in the well-being of the boys, all of them. Rikki12 obviously feels the same. The difference is in their response to the actions of BSA. So I suggest that we start with the well-being of the boys where there is common ground and then revisit the actions of BSA, maybe lowering the tone a bit. Any interest?

[PeteM 10]

He Made a Mistake - Will You Turn Your Back on Him? >>> NO!!!

 

Unless I'm mistaken, isn't Boy Scouts the BEST place for someone that has realizing that he had done wrong, then admitted his mistake to the Scoutmaster?

 

Would you rather have him hide it?

 

By having him realize his mistake, what the committee >>should

[LongHaul 10]

Rikki12,

          How about sharing the whole story with us? Your posts leave me to believe this happened at a Council Camp. Where any other scouts involved? Were any other scouts parents required to pick up their son? Where any other scouts involved also sent expulsion letters? are you seriously saying that any boy who is not in scouting sits upon the garbage heap of humanity? How about the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. LongHaul

[nldscout 18]

I am with Longhaul here, tell us the WHOLE story. Give us the who, why what in total.

 

That said I will tell you as a Judge I have incarcerated first time Pot users. If you commit a crime, be prepared to do the time.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Rikki, as a youth I was sexually abused by a Catholic Priest but I didnt then or now color the whole of the catholic church clergy by the actions of one

 

From what you have posted, you appear to have a genuine beef, but including all professionals in one group when we can hardly determine what you are talking about is not going to clarify the situation. Making huge generalizations doesnt help us understand your predicament. What happened?

[Beavah 205]

Yah, there's clearly somethin' here about stuff that went on at summer camp, involvin' multiple boys. We need the real, full info, Rikki.

 

Me personally, I'd be inclined to take a tack similar to PeteM's, eh? But it just depends on the boy and the circumstances. The fact that this seems to have occurred at a council camp and perhaps involved staff seems like it justifies the council's direct involvement.

 

Now don't take it personal, but callin' folks names and such just ain't the best way to go about makin' a presentable appeal. I don't mean to be triggerin' anybody's "Mama Bear" instincts, but I suspect yeh might make a better case by following your son's example. Don't blame others (like the BSA) or conditions (like ADHD) for the consequences of his actions. Acceptin' responsibility is, as you suggest, the first step. Then acceptin' consequences. If both you as parent and him as child do that, then perhaps friendly scouters can prevail on the powers that be on a boy's behalf. That's the only shot that has a chance of success, eh?

 

Yah, I'd still encourage you to assume this ain't the first time, no matter how much you want to believe that as a parent. A kid apt to act impulsively at camp is apt to act impulsively at school, and as yeh mention, there's a lot more drugs at school. You'll do your son much more service by watchin' him like a hawk from here on. At very least, follow the President Reagan doctrine: Trust, but Verify.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[evmori 11]

Might not be any more to the story. Could be that "red herring" type of post!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Rikki12 10]

I couldn't respond. I was working.

 

I did give the whole story. As I said, another boy brought it to camp. The boy in question was curious and tried it. Apparently someone saw, went to admin and reported it. A couple hours after the incident the boys were called to admin, questioned by admin and law and then picked up by their parents.

 

I cannot give names because the boys are minors, but as of 12 days after the boy in questioned received his letter, the boy that had brought the stuff to camp had NOT received a similar letter.

 

What I left out was the threats of adult mgmt to all the boy staff working at camp several times a day to fire them and replace them with CITs if they didn't work harder. Many of the boy staffers were discouraged and talking of quitting. As I said, it was several times a day for over 2 weeks until the parent of the boy in question asked management to tone it down. This same adult staff member had also been approached with the need to spend more time interacting with the boys and he stated it was not his personality style to do so. He told the boys they could develop their own games during the free time, but that he would not be available. It was about 2 weeks later that the incident occurred.

 

As I have said over and over, the boy is not without blame, but I do believe the negative atmosphere and the lack of adult staff interaction were contributing factors.

 

I also know this boy does not run freely around town. Most of his outings are through the scouts, and like us, when he goes other places his parents know who, what, when, and where and which other adults are present.

 

I also know that his troop is the best I have ever seen, even beyond those my older sons had been part of. I have never seen such dedication, caring, and commitment as the volunteers in this troop put forth. And I guess that is why the secretive and ramming tactics this council is displaying is so hard to swallow. Just today I learned that this same council had a rep. sit in on an Eagle BOR. The rep. asked the boy his opinion on the homosexual ruling for BSA. The boy said he did not agree with it, but that he would abide by it. That angered the rep who was then pushing for denying Eagle. It took a great deal of persuasion on the adult troop members parts to convince the rep to grant the Eagle.

 

Learning about the scandels did not help. I try to stay on top of the news regularly, but was not aware of the scope of the mess.

 

To top it off, the mother received a call today from the SE. Repeated efforts to get the SE to state the exact nature of the accusations against the boy were rebuffed. He would only state that he was calling as a courtesy in response to 2 letters he had received from the parents. Only after about the 12th request or so, did he finally state the accusations, which were very different from what the boy, witnesses and camp admin stated to the father at the time the boy was picked up. The other boy even admitted his guilt in bringing the stuff to camp. Interesting conversation, you should have heard it.

 

Let's face it, no one can defend themselves adequately if they do not know exactly what they are accused of. Is the desire not to get at the truth, or is there something more going on? No one knows, because efforts to get informtion are very difficult. References are made to SOPs for these types of situations, but when asked for copies, the council states they do not have any. No documentation of the events, no policies or procedures. Everything was sent to Regional to protect the council. (Why does the council need protection?) With such a wall, is it any wonder that the troop is looking suspiciously at the council? Include past interactions with the council and all we are now learning about of fraud, theft, and whistle blowers being banned, and the situation is disheartening.

 

Above all, why the attitude that "they" own the BSA and can do whatever "they" want however "they" want. "They" do not own stock in BSA and "they" did not start BSA or financially support it. "They" are only paid employees whose purpose is to support the volunteers and the boys. It is not the purpose of the boys and the volunteers to support the "they". There definitely seems to be a lack of accountability for those that have assumed power. This explains a great deal about how such scandels have occurred and been allowed to continue.

 

And for the record, let me state one more time. What the boy did was wrong, no two ways about it. He stood up, admitted to it, and took his licks without complaint. I simple stated that banning him from BSA was an extreme step that would send the wrong message to everyone. LIE if you make a mistake and if you make a mistake, you are no longer worthy. Combine that with the secretive wall that has surrounded the entire event and the whole situation becomes very ugly.

 

As for me, I wonder if I want my own son to continue with BSA after this. How do I explain that he needs to act with integrity and honor when his own council and too many others across the country do not act with integrity and hide their misdeeds and punish any that would speak out?

[Beavah 205]

Yah, Rikki, so if I understand you right, the boys who were smoking pot were camp staff members? Not CIT's, but paid staff.

 

And the boy in question did not exactly go turn himself in, eh? He was caught in the act.

 

No question it's tough, eh? But staff members smokin' pot at a youth camp pretty much guarantees gettin' fired and being excluded from future contact with youth. It has to. That's our promise to the other kids and parents to maintain a safe environment. And the lads were the council's employees, eh? The troop really doesn't have a say in this, unfortunately. It happened on the council's time. And I'll bet my favorite fly fishin' rod that it wasn't the boys' first encounter with cannabis.

 

Bad mistake. Tough mistake. Hopefully one that the lads will learn from and remember for a long time.

 

For the rest of it, I'm sympathetic with your complaints. I ain't comfortable with how we fundraise and where we spend money sometimes, and nobody is happy about the occasional major screw-ups from membership fraud to the Chicago and Idaho debacles. I believe there are some real structural and "corporate culture" problems in the BSA, and I'm a bit of an internal critic from time to time . Most BSA execs aren't well trained in, and don't perform well doin' youth supervision or crisis management. Youth work isn't a very large part of the job, that's where the volunteers do their thing. Yeh can't expect 'em to be great at mentoring or whatnot. And lots of times, I'm disappointed by volunteers, too, like the EBOR member (a volunteer, not a paid staffer) whom you mention.

 

While I agree with yeh on many things, be careful about paintin' with too broad a brush because you're upset. There's many good folks, paid folks even, within the BSA. And runnin' an organization is a hard job, with a lot of competin' pressures and interests. Sometimes the good of the many outweighs the good of the few, or the one.

 

The program ain't perfect. But for all its warts, it's still pretty good, and worth supportin'.

 

Beavah

 

[evmori 11]

Yup. A staff member caught smoking dope should get fired!

[GernBlansten 10]

I agree ed. And a staff member who covers up molestation should get what?

[packsaddle 753]

Yep, I was under the misimpression that this happened during a troop camp experience, not as part of the staff at camp. I'm willing to accept the nature of the unwise choice. I'm willing to accept the 'first time' claim. It makes no difference under these circumstances.

 

The other boy should have received the same treatment. Both should have been fired. And anyone else that was involved as well. Maybe even report the crime to the local authorities and let the chips fall. Sorry, this was a really bad mistake in a position of leadership and authority...and that makes a big difference. We might not apply it to the Presidency but it does apply to us mortals, and it should. If not everyone who was involved paid the price all I can say is that's regrettable. They should have paid as well.

 

Edited part: Gern, I agree, it's time to sweep out the barn.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)