How about a pertenint question?

[bluegoose 10]

I realize that saying this may cause many to not take my thoughts seriously, but I think all of you arguing about homosexuals in Scouting should watch the South Park episode "Cripple Fight." Once you get past the show's abundant use of profanity and political incorrectness, there are some very satirical thoughts about the issue. While you're at it, I'd also recommend watching "Something Wall-Mart This Way Comes." In case anyone was wondering, I'd much rather have homosexual leaders than untrained ones. So what's this I heard about a pertinent question...?

 

peace always(This message has been edited by bluegoose)

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

Most may have thought it was just another question for discussion.

 

 

 

 

[evmori 11]

This is really a simple question. Everyone is making it more complicated by reading into it. It's either one or the other or neither! Bob, which for you?

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[DugNevius 10]

The fact that Bob has refused to answer his own question only further strengthens the idea that his sole purpose was mere flamebait.

[Bob White 20]

Given the choice, would you rather your son be in a scout unit with all homosexual scout leaders or all untrained scout leaders?

 

We have seen some interesting answers. I asked the question because both are possible already although one is more prevalent than the other.

 

How hypocritical it would be to want the program opened to homosexuals but would rather have your child in a unit with untrained adults than all homosexual leaders.

 

How hypocritical it would be to want homosexuals in scouting but then feel it would mean greater vigilance. Why would it need greater vigilance? You foresee a greater danger and yet you promote it anyway?

 

Scouting is an educational method, a program. You cannot teach what you do not know or understand. I would not send my son to a school with untrained teachers. I would not enroll in a troop with untrained leaders.

 

I find it amazing the numbers of posters who see homosexual leaders as preferable over untrained heterosexuals and yet untrained leaders is a real and current problem in scouting causing most the problems brought to light on this and other scout forums. But few scouters on this board give any energy to addressing that problem. You spend more time bemoaning something you have no control over, but cover your eyes regarding a problem that exists in many of your own units or units in your community. While you debate the BSA membership rules we lose thousands of actual members due to poor unit programs.

 

As far as the homosexual lead units

As I have said before the BSA is a program based on traditional family values. No matter what your feelings are regarding the individuals themselves, there is no denying that homosexuality is an alternative lifestyle whether you believe it to be a choice or not. It does not represent "traditional" family values. They can no more fill the responsibilities of Scout leadership than an untrained leader could. If you dont understand that children learn, and form personal choices, just from observing and evaluating the adult role models in their life then you are oblivious to the impact of who and what you are in the development of the scouts around you.

 

I am not just singling out gays but any adult whose personal behavior whether in or out of uniform does not reflect the traditional values that this program is built around. I think that COs need to select leaders more carefully. I hold strongly the right of the BSA to place limits on membership largely because there are all kinds of COs and not all do their job correctly and the BSA has a responsibility to protect itself and its members by setting limits.

 

This idea of total local option is hugely flawed. The CO owns the unit, but the BSA owns the program. No one has the authority to alter the program other than the BSA. Who is a member, and who leads, are vital elements of that program. While some may not see the condition of an all homosexual leader unit as possibility it is possible now, (though unlikely due the attention that would be drawn to it) and it would be inevitable if the BSA altered its rules.

 

Given the choice of an all gay leader unit or an all untrained hetero leader unit, my family would choose the same thing that EagleInKY, and Laurie chose, he would be in neither. I think that would be the large scale result. The untrained leaders are not going to run out and get trained just because the membership rules get changed, and most families are not going to choose units with homosexual leaders if they have another local unit to join. So the overall membership would suffer greatly.

 

I am posting this as late as I can to minimize the name calling behavior that a few posters have chosen to use in response to almost anything I post.

 

[evmori 11]

Thanks for finally answering, Bob. Although I would be curious to see you answer if you HAD to choose one or the other.

 

Think I'll have a waffle for breakfast.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

[DugNevius 10]

Note on Traditional Family Values: They change. After all, the traditional family values back 200 years ago was slave ownership. Back until the 60's it was segregation of Blacks and Whites. Since im only 26, id be curious on what policies the BSA had in the pre-civil rights movement regarding segragation in scouting.

[Illini 10]

Ya'h know it doesn't matter how well a leader is trained if they do not practice what they were instructed (can't say learned if they do not practice the methods) and abide by the Scout Law and Oath. I know a unit that has leaders that run or attempt to run the unit as to how they see fit and not as a Boy run organization. There are leaders who manipulate the situation to their advantage not what is best for the boys. And who have lied within these very forums.

 

So, if I would have to make a choice...I would leave my son with leaders that are homosexual as long as they do not impose their personal lifestyle on my son, believe in god or higher power that is good, loving and forgiving and abide by the Oath and Law of Boy Scouting.

[packsaddle 753]

Welcome to the forums Marge.