Merlyn_LeRoy 72 Posted January 30, 2002 Share Posted January 30, 2002 I must have missed the laws or court cases YOU cited to support your claim that "When you say that a school is required to let the Klan or the whites only club in if it lets the Boy Scouts in, you dont know what youre talking about" or your claim that "To say that the government cannot judge the content of the message is wrong as well". As for a student group, the Boy Scouts is an outside group, since they require a charter organization, but the KKK is decentralized (has been since they've been losing expensive lawsuits over their members committing crimes; independent Klans aren't liable for judgements against other Klans), so a KKK group (or some other whites-only group) could very well be a student group. Also, you've never supported your "same topic" claim, whatever that's supposed to mean, and I hope by now you acknowledge that the first amendment protects atheism. To try to get this back on topic, maybe you could point out which of these statements, if any, with which you disagree: 1) some Scout units (Packs, Troops, etc) are chartered by public schools. 2) the BSA says the charter partner is responsible for selecting the leadership for the unit. 3) applicants for leadership have to sign a statement that they agree with the BSA's Declaration of Religious Principle; applicants also must believe in at least one god. 4) potential scouts have to promise to do their 'duty to god' to join. 5) 3 & 4 are religious requirements to participate in this youth group run by the public school. 6) public schools can't legally do this. Link to post Share on other sites
sctmom 11 Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 Dedicate dad writes: "God love ya Mom, but youre watching the parade a couple blocks behind. " Obviously I am slow because I don't know what you mean by this statement. Are you saying the KKK doesn't exist? Are you saying people don't discriminate against blacks today? Are you saying people don't believe in white supremacy today? Let me introduce you around Georgia. Usually about once a year somewhere in Georgia the KKK gets on the news because they apply for a parade permit in some small town or they march in a community parade. Racial discrimination, as well as many other types, are alive in Georgia. As I've stated in other posts, our schools allow Christmas trees, Christmas parties, etc. in the elementary schools. They give lip service to Kwaanza and Hanakuah (forgive me if I misspelled those). The chorus sings Christmas carols at the PTA meeting. Think my Wicca friends could go talk to the students? Think my Native American friends could go talk to the students about their religion? Oh, the Native American beliefs are referred to as "myths" and "legends". Dedicated Dad, if you are saying I'm behind the times, how recent of an example do you need of racial or religious discrimination (and I mean very clear, obvious cases) in the South? Off the top of my head I know of one I personally dealt with in 1989 of racial discrimination and a major news story about racial discrimination around 1988 (the Georgia county that had NO blacks in it, blacks couldn't even get a job in the stores there). Link to post Share on other sites
slontwovvy 10 Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 Hmmmm.....Kind of ironic that the American Civil Liberties Union, an organization founded to preserve the rights of the individual, should come to assimilate so many people to a lock-step cadence of political correctness. The ACLU was informed of my aforementioned cases, Mr. LeRoy. I know because one of my relatives did it. Still, though, have to pick your fights, right? Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 What christian faith doesnt beleive in the Trinity? Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 OGE, None that I know of. Link to post Share on other sites
Dedicated Dad 10 Posted January 31, 2002 Author Share Posted January 31, 2002 I guess if you believe the Apostles Creed and the Nicene Creed you pretty much believe in the Trinity! Link to post Share on other sites
sctmom 11 Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 I mainly went to Baptist churches growing up, we didn't have the Apostle's Creed and Nicene Creed. I don't remember every hearing of the term "Trinity", even though I do remember hearing "Father, Son & Holy Ghost". Link to post Share on other sites
Dedicated Dad 10 Posted January 31, 2002 Author Share Posted January 31, 2002 The creeds really are confessions, my Baptist friends dont recite them either. Link to post Share on other sites
sctmom 11 Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 Yep, Baptists don't confess, they just feel guilty! LOL A little humor into the subject. Link to post Share on other sites
andrews 10 Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 From my point of view, you're saying you must believe in a magical, invisible being to know truth. It doesn't require your belief at all. God's existence is not subject to the whims of someone's belief. Whether you believe in gravity or not will not keep you from slamming into the ground if you walk off a tall building. In spite of all your verbal handwaving, I have yet to see an explanation of how an atheist can have a firm foundation for any belief. For if there is no transcendent reality, then nothing is stable. And yes, polygamy is immoral. (In the beginning, God made one man and one woman, not a man and three wives.) Brad Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 Wow, Leave it to this group, here we are talking about An Atheist and the Boy Scouts and a theology discussion breaks out... So I am sure I understand the term, in the roman catholic faith confession means owning up to our sins to the priest. I am not sure where in the Apostle's or Nicene creed it referneces sorrow for personal behavior rather than statements of beliefs. Does confession mean soemthing else in different faiths? Link to post Share on other sites
Merlyn_LeRoy 72 Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 ... "The ACLU was informed of my aforementioned cases, Mr. LeRoy. I know because one of my relatives did it. Still, though, have to pick your fights, right?" And what did they say? It's possible they didn't consider it a rights violation (you haven't given much in the way of details), it's possible they talked to the school and the school stopped doing it (the ACLU always tries talking before lawsuits, because it's faster and cheaper), it's possible they wanted to file a lawsuit but didn't have enough money, or couldn't find someone with standing. Link to post Share on other sites
Merlyn_LeRoy 72 Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 ... "It doesn't require your belief at all. God's existence is not subject to the whims of someone's belief." True; gods don't exist no matter how many people believe in them. ... "Whether you believe in gravity or not will not keep you from slamming into the ground if you walk off a tall building." Yep. I can see the effects of gravity. Can't say the same for gods. ... "In spite of all your verbal handwaving, I have yet to see an explanation of how an atheist can have a firm foundation for any belief. For if there is no transcendent reality, then nothing is stable." I don't agree with that last statement. Do you have any evidence that your statement is true? ... "And yes, polygamy is immoral. (In the beginning, God made one man and one woman, not a man and three wives.)" So you're saying Judaism is immoral? If a man dies without male heirs, his brother is supposed to marry his widow (even if he's already married) so his brother's line will carry on. And, of course, this illustrates the problems I've mentioned with god-based morals. You say god prohibits polygamy; a Muslim would say god permits it. It doesn't look like god-belief settles the question at all. Link to post Share on other sites
Dedicated Dad 10 Posted January 31, 2002 Author Share Posted January 31, 2002 ...rather than statements of beliefs.Not "statements", to confess means more than to acknowledge sin to God or a priest, in means to declare or affirm ones faith. Many Christians use the Apostles' Creed and the Nicene Creed to confess and proclaim the eternal truths stated in these Creeds and I would imagine your priest will concur. Link to post Share on other sites
andrews 10 Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 ... "In spite of all your verbal handwaving, I have yet to see an explanation of how an atheist can have a firm foundation for any belief. For if there is no transcendent reality, then nothing is stable." I don't agree with that last statement. Do you have any evidence that your statement is true? Name several things that are stable in your (apparantly atheistic) view of life. And why are they that way and not some other. You cannot do that, and that is my point. For wherever you draw the line, there is no reason it couldn't be drawn in a different place. Brad Link to post Share on other sites
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