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rhol

Jambo 2012 rejected - Now What?

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Adding to what nldscout and Twocubdad said:

 

You also have to look at it from another point of view also:

 

Even if you had 5 years experience, they may be looking for somebody who is wanting to work with and look out for ALL the boys in the jambo troop...not fill the position with somebody who is going to shadow their own son around.

 

 

NOw about Jim. Why are you pouting? I mean, not trying to insult you or put you down, but that's what it is.....pouting.

 

Jim is not responcible for you being accepted or not accepted. Jim's position has no correlation to yours.

 

Suppose you did get accepted and another parent from your troop didn't who also applied. Should they act toward you as you say you are going to act toward Jim?

 

Do you normally withdraw from or have hostile feelings for people who have better luck than you? If you and a friend go somewhere and he wins a door prize and you don't...is the ride home also difficult?

 

 

"I tried to stay out of talking about the jambo rejection as it seems to me he does not like me getting too involved in "his" scouting activities."

 

Honestly here, Jim is in a difficult spot. Now he is in the position of not being able to talk about something he enjoys because you take it personally and hold hard feelings toward him.

 

What else can he do? Either way, he loses: If he talks about the Jmabo, he gets the attitude from you. If he doesn't talk about it, he walks around on eggshells.

 

Nopw, this of course, is my own opinion based on how I am reading your posts. I know that I might be totally wrong. I might be misreading or just not understanding what you are trying to convey.

 

But.......in putting it all together, if years of experience weren't the biggest reason for them not choosing you, this would be a good reason for them to not choose you.

 

 

 

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Did it ever occur to you that the Jambo Leadership maybe trying to teach you a lesson??????

 

 

A couple of more thoughts for you to ponder...

 

What do the boys in the troop want?

 

You should have a little input but not schedule or plan it. merely guide. Do the boys want HA???? Can they pay for it????

 

You understand that the Crew is like a troop and the youth schedule and plan the events.....just because YOU want a HA Crew the youth involved might want one that is a service crew, or a social crew.

 

 

Scout led, not adult led.

 

(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

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rhol - sounds like you're a fast learner. On behalf of the boys you serve, thanks for all that effort in training. Now you have to clock time.

 

That includes helping Mr. Jim be the best SM he can be both at home and Jambo. It's time to get back on the bandwagon and encourage him to keep talking about "his" opportunity.

 

Every staff adult and youth I've talked to has had no regrets about going in that position. So pursue that. Especially if your son is counting on you to be in the vicinity.

 

And brace yourself. It's not any easier as crew advisor. On many adventures I've had to defer to some other adult because ...

1. it was a co-ed crew and I was not an essential leader,

2. when I had $$, I didn't have the time to participate,

3. when I had time, I did not have the $$, and

4. there were enough qualified adults on the trail and one more would be a drag on the contingent.

 

Consider this experience preparation for many disappointments on the way to adventure. Trust me, the youth in your future will need to overcome let-downs like these. A degree in The School of Hard Knocks counts for a lot more than WB or EDGE.

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In my district, years of experience directly working with scouts is what brings recognition and recommendations in your direction. Recognition also comes if you help out with some District events. Wood Badge is a fine training program, but some of the most respected scouters in my district do not have it. What they do have is 10+ years under their belt.

 

I've been doing this leader stuff for over 6 years, most of it with Cub Scouts - 4 years in Cubs as a ACM, DL, and WDL and 2 years in Boy Scouts as an ASM. Even with that amount of time, I'm still a newcomer compared to other scouters in my district. My youngest son has joined Cubs and I'm going through the Pack again as the newly appointed Cubmaster. Believe me, Cub leaders, even though we are just as busy or more busy than Boy Scout leaders, do not gain the same recognition in my district as Boy Scout leaders. That's just the way it is but I have no hard feelings because I'm in this program to work at the unit level and directly with the boys. Unit-level scouting is core to the program, not Jambo, and that's where the rubber meets the road.

 

All that said, there is no doubt you have gifts and talents to bring to the table and I'm happy to call you a fellow Scouter. Sign-up to be on staff and enjoy the experience. Jambo for me is just a dream due to $$$ and time. At least you have the time and resources to even consider it.

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Thanks to all for your comments. I have a better understanding of Scouting and how things work now.

 

Tomorrow I will be helping the OTHER district with an event and then OUR district's event next weekend. My son will be at OUR event with his troop only. I will be solo tomorrow and hope to help out the other Scouters. I like Scouting people and being part of the Scouting thing.

 

Again thanks to all who replied and I have a better insight on Scouting.

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First of all, I tip my hat to you for your willingness and commitment to get trained and prepare yourself to be a better servant leader for youth. Congrats on completing two goals toward your ticket - keep going.

 

Now, as far as Jamboree selection let me try and give you a little more insight as to why tenure often beats training. Recruiting is the main focus of the SM and the ASMs leading up to the Jamboree. Tenure means more contacts to draw from, and more credibility with parents making that decision to send their son for a couple of weeks for a couple thousand dollars with virtual strangers. Also, if two men were from the same home troop, it reduces their recruiting pool to fill the 36 spots on the Jamboree roster.

 

Leading a group to the Jamboree is night and day different compared to going to camp for a week. Having more than a year's worth of over-nighters and week-long camps helps the council leadership feel confident in the SM's and ASMs' ability to safely lead the tour, and be able to take all considerations into account (such as kids with diabetes)to reduce liability and ensure a successful experience for all.

 

I would encourage you to let your son go, and to try to staff. There are lots of positions that need to be filled. For someone that is hungry for training like you are, become an NRA Instructor (and merit badge counselor), or RSO, and go help with shooting sports. Last I heard they needed over 1000 instructors and RSOs to help with shooting.

 

Keep your chin up. There will be many more Jamborees, and starting this year they allow Venturers, so you may still have a chance to attend with your son as part of the adult leadership for his group. If he attends this Jamboree, it also will help him be better prepared to be a youth leader for the next one.

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rhol, I do not understand why you feel that you are being personally persecuted because you were not chosen as one of the leaders to go to Jambo.

 

Yes, you are highly trained, and volunteer a lot of your time (which I am sure your council/district appreciates), but you DO understand that you are NOT the only Scouter in your entire council that can be said of, don't you?

 

You do understand that your council most likely had a LOT (could be hundreds) of applications for just ONE Jambo slot?

 

The fact that you have a son who you will not allow to go to Jambo without you has no bearing at all on your qualifications for the ONE open Jambo position.

 

The fact that you will not allow your son to go to Jambo is YOUR decision, NOT the council's.

 

 

 

 

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I have been in rhol's position, But it was not about going on a trip with my scout.

 

 

I have struggled with district about holding events when no one would do it for the cubs. I had roadblocks put in place to prevent it, when I over came those roadblocks they created more.......So I understand to a degree.

 

 

In one of rhol's earliest post he has only been active with his son's troop since March of 2011. http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=316311#id_316311 Having been on 4 campouts and outing by May of 2011. Less than a year in scouting. No wonder he was passed over.

 

The SM Jim knew you would not be selected and tried to spare you the pain you are feeling. Maybe you should take some advice from him???? He also understands that you will probably be gone in a couple of years when your scout eagles at 13 or 14.

 

For the record I would not take any advice from a DE or paid pro, they do not have your or your scouts best interest in mind.

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Skip Jambo, it's over priced and over rated. Wait a few years and send your son to Philmont. And when he gets back he can tell you all about the fun and adventure he had.

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In our council if you want to attend Jambo as a leader:

 

1) You have to be "connected" and part of the adult scouting group, You know, the guys you see at all the adult functions but rarely see them working with youth.

2) It's seems that it's very helpful to be part of the woodbadge training staff group.

3) Quite a few adults that went last time were not ACTIVE SM's in troops, most were "retired" and sat on district boards

4) Experience and ability to work well with youth is not required, you just have to have been around and impressed the right people.

 

This may sound very harsh but it is what it is. We unfortunatly work within an organization that is controled by a "select" group.

 

If anyone said you were rejected because of your type I, have a lawyer file a complaint with national.

 

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GetOutdoors,

 

Your mileage may vary from council to council. Because of my experience as an ASM at the 2005 and 2010 Jamborees, I was asked to sit on the 2013 Jambo committee. Let me address the differences between our "experiences" one by one.

 

1) You have to be "connected" and part of the adult scouting group, You know, the guys you see at all the adult functions but rarely see them working with youth.

 

Response: We have 4 troops and 2 crews going to Jambo. Not including the 3rd ASM who should be between 18 and 25, we needed 4 SM's, 8 ASM's, 2 CA's and 2 ACA's. That is 16 adult leaders. The application was placed on the council website and sent out in district newsletters along with a list of qualifications we were looking for in each position. Anyone was welcome to apply. We sat aside two different dates to do interviews with the applicants. I would consider myself what you refer to as one of those "connected" guys. I can assure you that of the 25 people who applied, I might have known 4 of them. The others I had never seen or heard of.

 

2) It's seems that it's very helpful to be part of the woodbadge training staff group.

 

Response: Only 2 of the 25 applicants had served on a WB staff. The other 23 had been to WB as that was one of the requirements.

 

3) Quite a few adults that went last time were not ACTIVE SM's in troops, most were "retired" and sat on district boards

 

Response: Every adult leader picked when I went in 2005 and 2010 and the leaders we selected for 2013 are current active unit leaders.

 

4) Experience and ability to work well with youth is not required, you just have to have been around and impressed the right people.

 

Response: Abilty to work with youth was the absolute priority item we used in making our selections. A lot of people look good on paper, but it didn't take but about 5 minutes of interviewing them to tell if they had the personality and attitude to work with kids or not. It was the winning factor in a number of our decisions. In fact, we even selected a few ASM's over SM's to be the Jambo SM because they were far more dynamic and we felt they would appeal more to the boys.

 

This may sound very harsh but it is what it is. We unfortunatly work within an organization that is controled by a "select" group.

 

Response: Depends on the council. Our "select" group works very hard to be inclusive and give equal access to all and continue to bring new blood into the mix.

 

 

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Response: We have 4 troops and 2 crews going to Jambo. Not including the 3rd ASM who should be between 18 and 25

 

*** That would be 18 and 21. Something I missed?

BDPT00

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BDPT00,

 

I just checked the Jambo website and stand corrected. I'd have to dig to find it, but some early literature we had listed the age for 3rd ASM up to 25. I remember this because we assumed that the increase from 21 to 25 was to broaden the pool just as they have reduced the price to $425 as an enticement. Also, "youth" up to 21 could attend as participants thru Crews, so it made sense to up the age pool for 3rd SM. For the past two Jamborees, our council has had 3 Jambo troops. Except for one young man who went in 2010 as a 3rd ASM, we have had to fill those spots with men in the 40's and 50's as we just couldn't get the college aged kids interested. Most were working during the summer to help pay for college and couldn't afford the time or money to go. Dropping the price in half and upping the age would help combat that, but you are correct, the age is 21.

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Link to the national requirements are here:

 

https://summit.scouting.org/en/Jamboree2013/Pages/Scoutmaster-Qualifications.aspx

 

Note that SMs must be currently registered as an SM. So district folks cannot be Jambo SM.

 

2d ASM is 18+ and 3d ASM is 18-20.

 

Now remember councils may add to the criteria, i.e. we want you to have WB21C (which at the last one WAS a national requirement if memory serves) but the link I give is the minimum requirements.

 

IMHO, you really need a jambo leader who is there for all the youth. Someone who has a lot of expereince working with youth and dealing with all kinds of problems that can arise. Someone who has sent youth home from summer camp for misbehavior in case you have to send a scout home from jambo (and I personally know 1 youth who WAS sent home from jambo for stealing and destroying property, he was in my Sea Scout Ship).Someone who knows how to handle an emergency. Someone who can work with the youth. Someone who is not going just b/c his son is.

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