Your Ideal IOLS Course

[Basementdweller 608]

Eagle who said the LNT would cost anything?????

[SSScout 1616]

Demonstrating and "lecturing" have to go along together. The modeling of Patrol Behavior is often not mentioned in the IOLS manual, but is a Trainer/philosophy thing, I find. I have been a trainer on several IOLS courses, different leaders, and I do adjust to their attitudes. The best , IMHO, lead by example, and try to encourage the trainees to see themselves as a Patrol. They are organized into Patrols at the indoor sessions of SMS,encouraged to communicate BEFORE they get to the IOLS site, and then on site, expected to communicate and operate together for cooking, fire wood, sanitation stuff, everything. We have Patrol competitions(knot tying speed, lashing poles to get an object out of reach, finding a compass bearing and the "treasure", and when the weekend is over, my SM presents Patrol Awards.

We have a very Scout friendly place to train. Big open field, fire ring, big open pavilion, and a barn to use if the weather is really bad. October last, we wrapped the pavilion with tarps and held forth thru a rain and sleet storm. Find dry wood by splitting open wet logs? Build a fire in rain and wind? did that. Hike thru the woods pointing out animal sign. Not just Look, but See. Not just Listen, but Hear.

Another time, one IOLS organizer told me they expected the trainees to "earn" their Toten'Chip. She had the patches ready to present them! When I protested that adults may not wear youth awards, she said it was important for the men/women to have the "whole" experience. And then wanted me to do the Wood's Tools portion in 1/2 hour. I said no, I need at least an hour, which was grudgingly scheduled. She did not do Patrols, only individual camping. Sound familiar? Her cooking was in BIG charcoal, AL foil dinners, luaau style. I thought it was very clever, but us staff set out the charcoal, we laid the fires, not them.

Again, get the old timers to do the show and tell, model the Patrol method, and let the trainees ACT like Scouts , as much as possible.

[Eagle92 110]

Ok a few things before going into plans.

 

1) A site I just found tonite that I have found very beneficial to putting together info.

http://www.bsatroop780.org/index.html These guys have an awesome website from I've seen so far, and I hope they let me copy and edit some of the PDFs they created on Scout skills. I hate to say it KUDU, but they are giving your website a run for the money as my favorite scout skills website

 

2) Base, I would hate for you to drive a long ways and not help out with gas. Plus I may have my eco-con guy. T

 

3)SP, No problem, and it sounds like something I already have, but for a differnt training.

 

4)SSS, MINDREADER.

 

Ok here are my plans so far.

 

Participants arrive, get put into patrols and are shaken down, group gear divvied up, etc. This is the Packing part of that module. Issue their scout staves, talk about hiking safety, hiking techniques, and give very introductory compass intro. They are then handed cards with bearings to their patrol campsites. Staffers accompany them.

 

In the campsites, the selecting a campsite module goes into play as well as hints to make it a bit more comfortable. Also so some supplies will be in the campsite waiting for them. Once they are done, they continue shooting bearing learning where the other patrols are before returning to the HQ for cracker barrel. During cracker barrell Patrol method will be discussed, info on the rest of the weekend, and general CB discussions.

 

After breakfast Flag session goes into play. First with the entire training troop, then split into patrols to work amongst themselves, hopefully with students teaching, but staffers on the sidelines.

 

Then the session on Orienteering. If folks cannot teach, then we got staff to do it. GPS, we don't need no stinking GPS, we got compasses and USGS survey maps Also the facility we have does have a compass course already working out. Also may have a Patrol Challenge where each patrol makes a compass course for the other patrols to do for fun.

 

Then 4 hours will be spent doing the 2 nature modules and lunch. One of the the things I remember doing after reading my old BA22 syllabus, is coming up with a nature display, and I think that will be worthwhile.

 

Then comes First Aid. I know we have a few students who can teach the module, just need to remind them to 'adapt, improvise, and overcome," as one of the future students couldn't remember how to make a litter with 2 poles and a blanket since he is so use to the fold out ones and gurneys with his job. And again this will be by patrol Our focus will be the very basics and I will be offering them the opportunity to take a AHA Heartsaver FA/CPR/ AED at a late date for certification. I agree with Outdoor I view it as very important. But I admit I do not like how AHA teaches it, i.e. wathcing a video and little hands on/ interaction.

 

Once every one get an understanding of FA, we'll be working in patrols for the next 3 hours on wood tools, building fires, and cooking dinner. Hopefully we won't need to use any first aid at this point.

 

Forgot to add, the different patrols will be using compass bearing to go to different locations to do the sessions Only time they will be togther will be for the wood tools and dinner. One of the campsites was hit really bad by Irene, and there is a lot of work to do there. Idea is to help clean out that campsite, and use the wood from clearing out for fire building and cooking.

 

After dinner is pioneering, campfire, and Cracker barrell which doubles as our Q & A session.

 

Morning is Scouts' Own and LNT with everyone. then break camp, closing flag ceremony, and dismissal.

 

As you can see I am trying to reinforce PM with the groups doing alot of patrol sessions. Also trying to do hands on with compass courses, using bearing to get from place to place, having supplies to do first aid instead of watching a video, etc.

 

Also trying to reinforce the concept of "Train them, Trust them, let them lead," By having older Scouts, Venturers, and young ASMs actually rotate around with adults acting in youth roles, but staying out of the way unless the adults start screwing around and not listen to the youth.

 

I am in the process of making both a book for participants, as well as a staff book. Looking at the current BSHB, I was disappointed in the insufficient , or lack of information on some topics. Hence the use of Kudu's website, and the other one cited above.

 

So what am I missing, beside not delving more in depth on the Webelos side of things?

[SSScout 1616]

""So what am I missing, beside not delving more in depth on the Webelos side of things?""

 

Find a 1950's vintage FieldBook, written mostly by GBBill. Use it for copy on:

I. Fire safety and building: add the Fireman's Chit requirements and the (our!) FIVE FIRE requirements : (1) The Means to Extinguish the fire. Water, shovel, sand, etc. (2) A Clear Area: 10' in diameter, clear overhead,, consider LNT needs for later. (3) Clear Air. Not merely OXYGEN, but can you see? This means PERMISSION, is it allowed by your area? Fire danger? Park rules? (4) Fuel: Gathered BEFORE you set the fire. Tinder (fritos, drier lint, wax egg cartons, pine cones?), kindling, big stuff, but no larger than you need. A cooking fire is not a signal fire is not a "Campfire" for skits. Oak vs Pine, etc. (5) Means of ignition: Matches, flint and steel (have you practiced it?), fire piston, etc.

Demonstrate the flammability of various things (nascent SMs are often ignorant of such things and appreciate the demos): Hand cleaner, tent nylon, various types of tinder, I tell the story of my friend who tried to pack the maximum number of matches into his match safe and had it explode in his hand. Waterproof matches in wax, most anything about camp fires.

II. Woods Tools. Do the Whitlin' Chip and Toten Chip. Again, provide copy of the requirements (online is available) and F/B pages, if available. Note that the "requirements" are not "good use" necessarily. Tradition here, is the guide, I find. Clipping the W/C or T/C card for poor use, must reearn it. . Troops do Packs a great favor by offering to teach W/C to the older Cubs. And the knife skills in T/C ARE W/C. Again, the photos in the old F/B are superior to our present HB, IMO. Knife and axe and saw handling and care. Many new SMs have never handled anything more than a dinner knife. Find an old time carpenter that can demo hatchet and saw care. Talk about split handles, how the grain of a wood handle will split if the handle is poorly carved and the grain direction is not taken into consideration. Felling axe, vs hatchet vs Double bit axe, camp saw vs big cross cut vs carpenter saw. Keep out of dirt. Oil it. etc. Teach pride in good tool use, not merely "passing the test".

Does EVERY Scout need to carry a full size felling axe to Philmont? Is the Big Sheath Knife allowed? (no official prohibition from Irving), but why carry one?

Sharpening is a personal thing. Ask 5 Scouters how to sharpen and hone a knife, you'll hear 6 ways to do it. Choose and teach ONE, stick to it.

III. Plant and Animal ID: Tracks, scat, gnawed acorns, antler rub, fur on bark, holes in ground and tree trunks, nests, bird songs, animal noises. Get'em to SEE not merely look, HEAR not merely listen. Leaf shape, bark type, tree shape (singleton vs forest), use of the plant, recommend guides and pamphlets on local stuff (provide? sell?)

I like the idea of compass & map to their campsite. And to the other Patrols sites.

 

Go get lost for a while in the woods. I will be visiting daughter down in Hillsborough later this month.

Smile and wave as you go by...

YiS

[Eagle92 110]

SSS,

 

You ain't kidding about the vintage books I'm going back to the local museum to reclain the rest of my collection that they used for a scouting display.

 

The website I liked above has some great info, and I've received permission to edit it. The very first thing I did was put in a backpacking quote from the 2nd ed. BSFB. Luckily, or unluckily as the case may be, that book is "so well loved" the cover is torn off, pages are dog eared, and notes from me and my cousin are in it. Not really museum quality, so I didn't lend it out.

 

But I'll take it over the 4th ed. Don't remember much about the 3rd edition, but the 4th can't touch the 2nd ed.

[Jay K 15]

Ideal: take a group to the Boundary Waters for 5 days and teach it there. Do real navigation and real campfire and camp stove cooking. Hope for no real first aid! My Council said "no!" See my Wood Badge horror story.

Less ideal:

 

Get the "Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills" handbook, #33640.

Get some Adult volunteers to teach specific modules.

 

My vague idea is: Have them show up after dinner Friday evening and do the "American Flag," "tents and Shelters," "Camp fires" and "Camp and pack basics." Saturday morning, I think a flag ceremony, "fancy breakfast" and learn-by-doing "menu planning." "clean up." and "Backpack stove." After breakfast, "Woods Tools." Then "Ropes and Lashing," followed by free time, and then a "fancy" lunch. After Lunch, "Additional skills" which is "Map and Compass" (I move "Compass reading" out of "Cooking.") The others are "measuring., " Orienteering," "Plant and Animal identification.," which I think go together, and "Hiking basics & Leave -no -Trace, " which I paste together. That should fill the afternoon, followed by "fancy" dinner, including cleanup, then Chaplain service, flag ceremony, and a campfire. Sunday morning, a flag ceremony, "simple" breakfast and cleanup and then all the First Aid. Then, closing ceremony including awarding of certificates, a flag ceremony, and dismissal.

 

[drmbear 10]

Honestly, I was very, very disappointed by the IOLS course. Of course, I am an Eagle Scout that camped a lot in my Scout years, and have continued regularly to camp, backpack, canoe, etc. in the 30+ years since then. Besides the obvious gripe of wondering why I had to be there in the first place, I had overall disdain for the fact there was a programmatic focus on what WE teach the boys. I was wondering what the heck happened to the patrol method and "boy run." It should be boys attending this kind of course rather than adult leaders. And it should be older, experienced boys teaching the less experienced boys. I understand that we need to have a clue what "right" looks like, so maybe there is a need - for clueless adults.

 

So instead of setting an IOLS course up with the objective of teaching Adult leaders to be teachers of Scout skills, I would instead work to demonstrate the ideal of the patrol method in an outdoor camp setting. I would take your experienced Scouts and form them up in a patrol or two. Have your adult staff set up their site as they would in a great campout setting. Make how things work be the ideal - you can do that with your experienced boys, right. I saw it with my Leadership Corps when I ran Troop Leadership Training Courses for the council as a youth.

 

So what can we see? We can see a patrol deciding how to best set up a camp. With some of the boys playing younger Scouts, we can see how the older Scouts help and teach so that everyone can participate. We can see how Scouts work together to set up a meal, cook, and clean up. We could observe proper teaching of firebuilding practices, campcraft, older Scouts teaching the younger Scouts about poison ivy, insects, and animal life. We can watch Scouts properly set up things for knife and axe safety, and how they police themselves.

 

I think the adult participants should also break up in patrol size groups and also set up for the night as adults would on a campout, separate from the others. Each of these groups could have a guide from the adult staff that is there to explain exactly what they are seeing and why it works. The participants are also free to ask the boys questions - they should know the answers, right?

 

So what things are we primarily concerned about as adults here? I'd say one of our primary missions as an adult is safety, right? We try to stay out of the middle of what a patrol is trying to do, what the boys are doing, unless we notice things that are becoming unsafe. So these participants, in observer mode, have an adult guide that is pointing out safe practices as the boys go through their day in camp. They can learn how we, as adults, advise and intervene when we see things that are unsafe. I can also see inexperienced adults asking the Scouts why they did certain things the way they did, etc. As well, the participants can see how the adults of a troop campout in style and comfort, right?

 

Something that was never presented at my IOLS course is just what it is supposed to look like if it really worked like it is supposed to, like that ideal, like I had the opportunity to see in developing that boy staff team for my TLT courses. It shouldn't be that hard to do, pulling a boy staff from OA members and recent NYLT staff. Your adult staff should already be full of experienced campers with troops. I'd get the boys to prepare together a few Saturdays, to build the rapore of a patrol, to set their agenda and schedule. The course could still essentially start Saturday morning (if you want all the participants to come out Friday, night, no problem). They could observe patrols going through set-up, lunch, afternoon activities that cover some of the other IOLS curriculum items, dinner, a reflection/discussion time after dinner, a great campfire program (older Scouts can do an awesome job of this if they are encouraged), a breakfast and Scout's Own, responsible tear-down of camp, and a really good walk through of the entire area to make sure they've left nothing behind.

 

I think this would also significantly raise the bar for these older Scouts. Most of them "know" what they are supposed to do, but you and I know that they don't always follow through. Getting them to recognize the "ideal" and how it works out will make a difference in the units they serve. It's also a great leadership opportunity for the boys, because they really are demonstrating the highest ideals of Scouting.

 

That's what I would do...

[BartHumphries 10]

Ok, a few responses:

 

Eagle92, yes that was from National Camp School. I know I have an online version of the file around somewhere. All summer camp programs are basically local option (except those things that are covered by the camp inspections). People sometimes choose to do things differently for various reasons (some of which might be local reasons).

 

Regarding Sabbath-friendly courses, I suppose it would matter whether there are more people in your area who say the Sabbath is Friday night or who say it's Sunday and how any of those people feel about camping on the Sabbath. Ask around.

 

Get Outdoors, you said, "Real wilderness first aid certification (I'm not talking the BSA thing they do a camp)..." You might be confusing Wilderness First Aid (WFA) certification (which is the same whether from a BSA provider or any other organization like the Red Cross) and Wilderness Advanced First Aid (WAFA), which is a more advanced class that covers more advanced topics, and Wilderness First Responder (WFR), which is an even more advanced class which covers even more advanced topics, and then above all of those you can get a "Wilderness" cert added on to whatever "professional" medical certification you already have, such as W-EMT or W-RN or something. And of course all of those are "above" a normal First Aid (FA) certification. I don't know what the summer camp was doing that you referenced, but if it's a "Wilderness First Aid" cert, then it's the same as any other WFA cert. Then again, I suppose they might have just been talking about first aid in the wilderness and not actually offering a Wilderness First Aid certification.

Basically, the hierarchy is as follows: FA -> WFA -> WAFA -> WFR -> W-EMT/W-RN/W-whatever

[Eagle92 110]

DRM,

 

I can relate to your IOLS quite well. When I did SMF, the outdoor portion,today's IOLS course, was stuff I already knew and had taught as a youth.

 

I'll be honest I have several goals for this course.

 

1) get them to understand the patrol method. That's to be done by putting them into patrols and modelling it.

 

2) get them to understand boy led, letting the youth do the work, and essentially letting the scouts grow up. Part of the reason why i am using older youth on staff.

 

3)make them feel comfortable with the skills, let them know what to look for when their youth are teaching, and let them feel comfortable enough to pratice on their own to master the skills. There is no way you can master these skills in one weekend.

 

4)Make darn sure the folks know how to use a map and compass wo they won't get lost when their scouts get lost. Or at least they know where they are at, when the scouts get lost.

 

BH,

 

I'll be searching for the document for ideas. I've found some really good websites, and am using some older material,i.e. BA22 syllabus, 2nd ed. BSFB, etc.

 

As far as the first aid at my camp way back when went, we did the skills at the health lodge, then went on hikes where some materials, basically stuff that was found in nature, were availble for use and we were given scenarios to deal with.

 

EDITED: forgot to mention I am spinning off in the Patrol Method section about one session.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[drmbear 10]

Putting participants in patrols to "model" the patrol method in a day-and-a-half course just doesn't cut it in my opinion. I know we formed into patrols for IOLS, heck we even formed into patrols for Woodbadge, but the truth is that we are all adults. I knew absolutely what to do, but it is never a patrol. Our role in the troop is not to BE in a patrol, but to recognize the elements that MAKE a great patrol. My proposal puts the adults in their role as adults - the right place - but it is also a laboratory, because the participants can interact with the boys, can change things to see what works and doesn't work. They can challenge the example if they see something that doesn't make sense to them.

 

And in your "adult participant patrols" you will have "patrol leaders." How does that teach "boy lead?" I'm a participant, leading a patrol - I'm not learning how a patrol is "boy lead," I'm learning to lead the patrol. The thing we are doing is the thing we are learning. Don't we really need to be teaching how to be an adult in a boy lead troop?

 

As for Scout skills, like map and compass, I would let the "older" Scouts in my model patrol, go through the complete process they would use to teach the "younger" scouts, with the participants "looking over their shoulders" with compass in hand, etc. Remember, I said that this would be a laboratory, with a chance to interact. But the real lesson from the start would be what it is completely supposed to look like.

 

Hey, I think this could be a little hard to pull off, but I think it would make for an awesome course.

[Eagle92 110]

DR,

 

I'll be posting in response to you.later.

 

All,

 

I've tried to spin off 2 times and it aint working. So please go to the Patrol Method thread and respond to "Why the patrol Methods Does NOT Work Because...." to focus on that topic exclusievly.

 

Thanks

[BartHumphries 10]

I don't think IOLS really helps teach the "patrol method". Sure, the structure of the patrol method, just like that diagram in the Scout handbook or that one slide in Troop Leadership Training. But the actual patrol method, especially regarding "boy led"?

 

I mean, we're all adults. We all treat each other and react to each other like adults. How does that help us learn how to act/react with kids? "Well, this patrol can be sent off to learn and do things because they're adults and have long experience, can draw on that experience to more easily figure things out and learn, yadda, yadda."

 

"Sure, you have boys teaching and leading, but these are older boys, they're a small exceptional percentage and not like 'my' normal boys back home..." I don't really see how it teaches an adult who's unfamiliar with a boy led patrol, who perhaps hasn't ever seen that before, that a boy really can go out in front and lead and teach. That would almost require a separate course in my opinion.

 

Sure, put them in a patrol and teach them about being boy-led but I don't think a day or two in any course is really going to make that much difference unless that's the sole focus of the course -- getting to that point.

 

Edit: The spin off probably isn't working because you have to manually select a forum up above the rest of the edit message field.(This message has been edited by BartHumphries)

[desertrat77 1144]

Great discussion!

 

Eagle92, great facilitation. Any chance we can talk you into be a paid professional scouter again?

 

The old fieldbooks and handbooks rock. I received the second edition Fieldbook for my tenth birthday, and it's still my favorite scout publication for reference and just casual reading. First edition FB is awesome too.

[Eagle92 110]

'Rat

 

Not only NO but HECK NO I did it two times, three if you count my part time work, working for the BSA, and the two times were very stressful on the family.

 

Although I wouldn't mind redoing their literaure, esp the current BSHB and their training literature. But to be honest It would be editing with some updating. You really cannot beat GBB.

 

Back on topic

 

Does anyone remember the booklets national made that focused on a particular Skill Awards, then when they did away with the Skill Awards, the T-2-1 skills on a particular topic? I remember them being in inventory when I worked for supply, but b/c they never sold. I was thinking they may have ideas.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

I took Wood Badge after being SM for several years in 1985 and took IOLS after returning to Scouting in 2004. The experience of being in a patrol and experiencing the small groups dynamics was useful to me in both cases.

 

Was it the SAME THING that youths experience? No.

 

But still useful experiences that reminded me of what to aim for in Boy Scout programs.