Can Someone Explain Woodbadge to Me

[Kudu 186]

jrush,

 

"Youth Protection" (along with Diversity and Program "Neutering") are just Wood Badge excuses for taking Hillcourt's necessary position-specific training course away from Patrol Leaders and replacing it with generic POR theory.

 

As moosetracker points out, the Guide to Safe Scouting still allows unsupervised Patrol Hikes.

 

The purpose of Hillcourt's Real "Patrol Leader Training" is to teach Patrol Leaders how to conduct these Patrol Hikes without adult supervision.

 

A Patrol Overnight is just an extended Patrol Hike. See "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol":

 

http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm

 

Patrol Overnights are not central to Baden-Powell's Patrol System. B-P's Patrols are expected to conduct at least one unsupervised Patrol Hike (of about eight miles) per month. Patrol Camping is usually done as a Troop with the Patrols about 300 feet apart, in a ring around the Scouters' campsite.

 

Of course if you yourself have ever lived up to Baden-Powell's minimum standard, then you know very well that as soon as you separate Boy Scout Patrols by 300 feet (on a backpacking trip, for instance), the wheels in your natural leaders' heads start turning. Before the campout is over they are already planning unsupervised campouts, but with their friends outside of Scouting.

 

It would be easy to fix Wood Badge. Merely announce:

 

"You are going to hear a lot about "leadership" in this course, but remember always that the purpose of the Patrol Method is Adventure, the leadership for which can be measured by competency at a physical distance from adults. Notice that your Wood Badge Patrols are spaced at Baden-Powell's minimum 300 feet apart. That should be your goal upon returning to your own Troop. Notice also that your Wood Badge Patrol Hike is taken separately from the other Patrols and without a Staffer. This should be the expectation for your Troop's Patrol Leaders as well, if only in the context of monthly campouts."

 

Go ahead, jrush: Read that out-loud. I dare you!

 

How long did it take? 40 seconds?

 

The problem with Wood Badge is that the idea of taking even a minute away from the "Game of Life" presentation to mention Baden-Powell's Patrol System is abhorrent. A colossal waste of time, as you say.

 

To answer T2Eagle's thread topic question:

 

Wood Badge changes the meaning of "Patrol Method" from teaching Patrol Leaders the nuts and bolts of how to conduct their own Patrol Adventures, to teaching boys how to "understand" leadership theory.

 

A perfect example of this is the Patrol Method session of Scoutmaster Specific Training, where the Patrol Leader and any description of a working Patrol has been removed and replaced with EDGE theory!

 

It is easy to measure the result of Wood Badge training: How many Wood Badge Staffers or Course Directors even know that the goal of Real "Patrol Leader Training" is to conduct Patrol Hikes without adult supervision, or that Baden-Powell's minimum standard for the Patrol System is 150-300 feet between Patrols? 1 in 1,000? 1 in 10,000?

 

In other words, the overwhelming majority of Wood Badge Staffers literally do not know the "first thing" about the Patrol Method.

 

The cure for that empty feeling caused by Wood Badge is to read Green Bar Bill's two (2) volume third edition of the Handbook for Scoutmasters. See:

 

http://tinyurl.com/ydutcxo

 

Yours at B-P's 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

(This message has been edited by kudu)

[jrush 11]

Kudu, I understand.

 

G2SS and YP are just guidelines rather than "rules". A 3-day backpacking trip is really just an "extended patrol day hike". I suppose a coed venture crew could do an unsupervised overnight campouts an call them "extended crew meetings".

 

Maybe I also don't understand the ire because our course did have the patrols about 100 yards apart, we did do our "backpacking trip" without the TG, and I figured all courses did the same thing, since it is a standardized syllabus, and your poor experience with WB is a local, rather than national issue.

 

Sure, I think WB could be better...I was looking at it from the point of view of a person who has had extensive military training and professional development, so I found some of the things silly...I think a course which you drescribe would be far more applicable to Troops. At the same time, the stuff I thought was silly was entirely appropriate for Cub leaders, and the "chuck 'em out there on their own" isn't going to fly with coed crews, posts, or ships. So, should WB return to be a "Troop-centric" course, and tell the Cubs and coed leaders that the course they're going to attend will have little to no applicability to their programs?

 

Kudu, I agree with the concept you're proposing, but the way units could let their patrols operate in 1955 isn't the way the BSA will let units allow patrols to operate in 2015. I still don't blame WB, but rather the CYA mentality in G2SS, YP, etc. As I said in post #2 of this thread, WB is a "reflection of how national thinks" or something along those lines. WB isn't going to shift back to the GBB concept, because the Scouting HQ doesn't embrace the GBB concept.

 

I agree with your ire at scouting getting away from GBB's ideals, but it's not just a WB issue.

[moosetracker 132]

Actually the WB if done right is still deminstrating the old style of patrol method camping without a leader... Shhhh.. Don't let National know..

 

First off the TG would not have been your adult supervision, the TG is a youth position.. It's a hard concept lost on some.. You get you are a patrol, therefore taking on the role of the youth.. But harder to note is your patrol in basically guided by the Troop Guide & the SPL.. (youth led positions).. The SM doesn't do much.. Easy to get lost in "staff" and thinking all "staff" are the adult positions, so this concept is not picked up on by many..

 

But as for camping the first night the SM, ASM, TG's etc camp in a base close to you.. The next day you are given first class rank.. TG's go into venturing (no longer troop).. And much todo is made out of them LEAVING you "youth patrols" ALONE, taking down their camp and going home!!!!

 

But you are right.. in the program No more extended hikes.. if it is overnight it is overnight and there must be 2 deep leadership.. So at some time the syllabus will probably change to reflect that the adults don't leave you..

 

You still do have your ability to have day events for a patrol with no adult leadership..

[juggerwubba 10]

I think that there is a crucial point here:

 

A 21c woodbadge course RUN ACCORDING TO THE SYLLABUS makes a big deal of letting you camp without adult supervision.

 

A 21c woodbadge course RUN ACCORDING TO THE SYLLABUS allows you time to bond as a patrol and practice leadership skills

 

A 21c woodbadge course RUN ACCORDING TO THE SYLLABUS allows you to discuss TGOL and the movies shown and gain insight and understanding.

 

I would really like to have attended the 21c woodbadge course.

 

Unfortunately for me, I attended two weekends of something else.

 

Ah well. Perhaps there is a message in that for me.

[Basementdweller 608]

So Jug were did you attend????

[moosetracker 132]

That is sad.. Our Course Directors tell us they go to the course all Course Directors go to before the run the course, and have to sign in blood that they will follow the syllabus..

 

Sure there are differences due to the personalities of those who run it, technical difficulties, maybe some shifting due to the hurricane coming through.. But, all in all the course should run as intended..

 

I was surprised that when I was given a 1 hour presentation, my first pass I practically memorized the book and regurgatated it.. "No, No.. ".. "Redo".. Keep to what they want covered, but in your own words with your own examples.. This stuff in gray "MUST" be in it.. The rest is what they want covered and you must draw them to a similar conculsion, but not spit out as a robot..

 

So total rewrite, and everyone said I nailed it.. And I as a trainer learned what and how to interpret what they want from you out of a syllabus..

 

So course is to make participants first class and make lots of ToDo to the fact the youth are ready to be on their own and staff pack up and leave.. Everything may be done in the Staffs own words & motions.. But the bottom line is the participants draw the conculusion they are now able to camp as a patrol without adult leadership..

[juggerwubba 10]

Lets just say I am in the midwest.

 

I guess I have spent over 25 years following syllabus documents and delivering the content in my own sweet way. I am a teacher by profession and by vocation. It doesn't seem difficult to me, but as I say, it is what I do for a living.

 

I always find it painful when a course does not deliver its promises. Two of my scouts told me that they did not learn anything at NYLT that they could use in the troop. That prompted me to work on NYLT staff this year, so I could check out the content.

 

I attended wood badge in order to increase my ability to lead the troop. Since my first woodbadge weekend, I have met a series of challenges within the troop. I think that it is my 25 years of experience as a teacher, youth leader, mother and wife that has given me the skills to deal with these situations. (Perhaps I should have struck up a verse of "back to Gilwell" and all these problems would have gone away)

 

I get my first session with my ticket counseller tonight. Could be interesting.

 

BTW. I have been to Gilwell. Four times. My son's cub scout resident camp was there in 2005 and 2006

[Basementdweller 608]

Session with the Ticket councilor???????? Never heard of that.

 

 

I spoke with mine on the phone twice in 14 months.

 

 

Just had a real funny thought, what if I meet with this ticket councilor, whom I have never met in person, and he doesn't like anything I turn in....... Guess I am screwed.

 

 

 

[juggerwubba 10]

lol basement!

[Basementdweller 608]

So is it inappropriate to show up to get your ticket signed off with a ball bat......

 

 

If my ticket gets turned down after 15 months of working on it and zero guidance......That will end my scouting career, they will have officially won.

 

"Sorry boys, the jackholes at district have broken mr. b......he is going to enjoy the outdoors with out the burden of scouting. Good luck in life."

[juggerwubba 10]

Gosh basement - that is how I feel.

 

I almost left scouting the minute I got home from woodbadge.

I decided to wait until the next scout meeting - and the boys were awesome!

 

It helps to remember that!

 

 

 

[Eagle92 110]

Base,

 

Don't let them get you down. One of the best SMs I ever met, one that truly lived by the Patrol Method, one that would sit back and let his scouts make mistakes at Philmont because A) it was a learning expereince and B) he was enjoying the views, one that if you had challenges doing anything and needed help, he was there for his scouts...

 

 

...never completed his ticket. He had more important things to do with his family, and his troop.

 

 

[moosetracker 132]

Please don't tell me one of your ticket councilors are "one of them".. Is it someone you know and have locked horns with..

 

Ticket councilors can all work in different ways.. Scheduled meetings.. Looking at and checking off each ticket once accomplished (email, phone, whatever).. Never talk to them, pass in your items when the ticket is completed..

 

You are reminding me, that I am suppose to get in contact with the two I am ticket councilor for, just to see if they have any questions about how to get started.

[Basementdweller 608]

never met the councilor. so who knows???

[juggerwubba 10]

My ticket Counseler was lovely!

 

He allowed me to rewrite my goal of delivering TLT - to say that I will offer ILSfT instead......Yep, no-one on the course had spotted the fact that TLT was replaced in August by Introduction to Leadership Skills for Troops. I only found out because I was trying to download Introduction to Leadership Skills for Crews.

 

He then gave me permission to plan a High venture activity for my Youth leaders, rather than sitting on my hands waiting for them to plan. I was told on the course that I could not put "plan" anything for my ticket, because the boys have to do the planning. My ticket ended up as "supplying adult supervision for a high venture activity".