Common Wood Badge course - Good Idea?

[Jeffrey H 25]

"WB21C is an encapsulated course in leadership skills. It is not a true capstone course for Cub Scout leaders, nor is it a capstone course for Boy Scout leaders or Venturing leaders, as it does not attempt to serve as a continuation of the previous courses that these Scouters have taken on their respective training tracks."

Agree.  You do not need to have completed any basic level SM/ASM position specific training or outdoor-leader skills training.  It's recommended, but not required.  WB course directors will not turn you away if you have not had any prior courses.

There's alot of push in our Council to get Cub leaders signed-up for WB.  I'm not sure why.  New Cub leaders need practical tools and ideas to implement a fun and educational Cub program.  Will WB make you a better Den Leader with fun and educational den meetings??  Will it help the Cubmaster deliver better Pack meeetings?  If it can't do any of these, then don't bother the Cub Leaders with WB recruitment.

[ScoutBox 11]

I know we had several on our course without more then YP and specific training. Outdoor Leadership was not attended by all either.

 

I also read where to be considered a "Trained" Leader depends on the job you hold in the Troop. Example if your a Committee Person, then you don't need the OutDoor Leaders Course. But who decides you are Trained? I have attended all of the basic course, and also WB. I plan to go to PLC to better myself more. But what other course are there out there to help?

[BadenP 93]

This homogenized, neutral, and watered down style of one size fits all training of scout leaders justs proves how out of touch the current regime at National truly is to the needs of specialized training that scouters really need to be effective leaders. IMO, the new online basic training may be more convienent but in the long run will make the problem of untrained or undertrained leaders even worse. The group dynamic has always been the most useful high point in all scouter training, IMO, and these new online basics eliminate that altogether.

[ScoutBox 11]

I think I'm going to work on a local training that will cover what's missing. When the time comes I'm going to ask all here for input.

 

[Gary_Miller 10]

The material for separate Woodbadge courses are already out there are that needs done is to bring them out of the closest.

 

At one time there was separate courses for Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts.

 

The BS course was taught at council level and the CS course was taught at the region level

 

The CS course and was titled "Cub Scout Trainer Wood Badge" and you had to be in a district position to attend. I don't believe it would need much if anything to make it an offering at the council level.

 

Having attended both courses before they combined I don't think there is anyway one can get what I got out of the separate courses in one combined course. The programs are to different.

 

There is also one other course I have yet heard mentioned in this tread for Venture leaders, Powder Horn. While I have not yet attended Powder Horn I have talked to several people who have as well as read some information for the course. It seems like a good course and would need little or no modification to be like wood badge with a ticket of goals to work on.

 

 

 

[ScoutBox 11]

I think the Ticket /Goals are the major factor about WB. Helps to bring back things that can be achieved to improve the Troop etc.. I have also thought about Powderhorn. But they don't really do it over here because the information is too much. Europe an all.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Powder Horn is a Resource Course, it is not Skills instruction,its not Leadership Theory, its how to present the activities of the Ranger Award in your area

 

Least that's how its done around here

[Kudu 186]

William Hillcourt was the first American Wood Badge Course Director. You can't do better than his "Scoutmaster's Tool Chest" as content for a Boy Scout Specific Wood Badge.

 

I would spend two days on "Tool 3Patrol Leaders' Training," and at least a half-day apiece on "Tool 12Troop Hike Ideas," and "Tool 13Wide Games."

 

Troop Hike Ideas and Wide Games are the meat and potatoes of Outdoor Scouting.

 

Some Wide Games:

 

http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/games/wide/index.htm

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu(This message has been edited by Kudu)

[emb021 16]

"At one time there was separate courses for Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts."

 

Actually, there used to be four separate courses for Boy Scout leaders, Cub Scout trainers (but NOT unit-level cub scout leaders), Explorer leaders, and Varsity Scout leaders.

 

The Explorer WB course only existed in the 50s. Later in the 80s or so, Explorer leaders out west developed a course for them due to the absense of WB, which was called ELI (Explorer Leader Institute), later ACE (Advanced Concepts in Exploring). Sea Scout Leaders created Seabadge to met their needs.

 

"The BS course was taught at council level and the CS course was taught at the region level."

 

Toward the end, this was so.

 

At first, WB was ONLY available at Schiff and Philmont for council-level people. Later, as the number of WB-trained people, WB was pushed out to cluster-council courses and later council courses. Am sure that due to the focus of the Cub Scout Training Course to just a small segment of the CS world, there wasn't enought people to do council-level CSTWB.

 

"Powder Horn is a Resource Course, it is not Skills instruction,its not Leadership Theory, its how to present the activities of the Ranger Award in your area."

 

True. But not for long. National, again due to its attitude of 'program neutrality' is changing that in PH to make it less Venturing-specific/Ranger Award specific, making it a more generic high adventure resource course for Boy Scout & Venturing leaders.

 

 

 

[ScoutBox 11]

---True. But not for long. National, again due to its attitude of 'program neutrality' is changing that in PH to make it less Venturing-specific/Ranger Award specific, making it a more generic high adventure resource course for Boy Scout & Venturing leaders.

---

 

This is what I've been told..

 

And because of this, TAC has only held one course. TAC is very large..

[Tokala 16]

I do agree about WB21C being a generic course for leadership skills. It should be marketed that way as well. To market it as training to make people better Cub Scout leaders or Boy Scout leaders is a little misleading. It shouldn't be promoted as a way to improve Scouting skills or program management.

 

I have thrown the idea out to the training committee in my Council that we develop our own Boy Scout leader training and use the old Boy Scout Wood Badge/11 leadership skills format. It could probably be done in 1 weekend. Unfortunately I didn't keep a copy of the syllabus to develop the plan.

 

As Council vice president of program, I can push this along and see if I can get any traction. I'm just busy with other program issues right now.

[Lisabob 13]

I can see where many of the critiques are coming from. On the other hand, I took the course as a cub leader, along with our pack's CM. Our experiences were key in revitalizing the pack, which had already pretty much collapsed when we stepped in. Both of our tickets focused on things that needed fixing in our pack, and that had a major impact.

 

Perhaps we could have gotten the pack on its feet again without wood badge, but I sort of doubt it. Wood Badge made me re-evaluate what I knew about scouting. It provided me with a ready-made network of experienced and passionate scouters to draw upon as resources. It gave me new ideas about how to build a better pack program, how to find other quality adult leaders to keep the pack going, and how to integrate with area boy scout troops - none of which I had gotten from any of the cub leader trainings I had attended.

 

So, although there may be flaws in the current WB approach (and maybe the course should have been renamed so as to avoid mis-perceptions about what it is, and isn't), I don't think that simply throwing out the cub leaders is necessarily the right answer, either.

 

 

[emb021 16]

"So, although there may be flaws in the current WB approach (and maybe the course should have been renamed so as to avoid mis-perceptions about what it is, and isn't), I don't think that simply throwing out the cub leaders is necessarily the right answer, either."

 

If anyone said 'let's toss out the cub leaders', I didn't hear it. And (not aimed at you) I get a little annoyed when I speak of the need of having program-specific WB courses that some think that means kicking out the cub scout leader. I want the cub scout leaders to have a great, advanced leadership course for them, just as I want the same for boy scout leaders, venturing leaders, etc. When I went to BSLWB, it really pumped me up about boy scouting, and I and the other leaders in my troop made changes for the better in our troop. I want that same thing for leaders of all programs.

 

But, IMO, National's 'program-neutral' "one size fits all" isn't the solution.

 

[SR540Beaver 116]

Ditto to Lisabob. I took WB back in 2003 when I was a Pack Committee Chair along with three other folks from my Pack. Our CM was a TG on the course. He recruited the four of us. While the Pack was doing OK at the time, us attending the course was a game changer for the Pack. It created a training tradition in that Pack. Removed seven years, I know folks at that Pack.....not because they were there when I was, but thru their leaders attending WB courses I've staffed.

 

In the past, we have targeted Cubbers for recruitment. The logic behind it (which I find sound) is that Packs do not always have the deepth and breadth that Troops do. Troops have people crossing over after several years in Cubs to mix in with people who have already been there and done that along with a number of years in the troop. In short, folks in troops usually have many more years of experience that folks in packs lack. Packs tend to reinvent the wheel over and over as leadership leaves for troops.

 

WB gives these pack folks a broader view of scouting than they have ever had and provides a swet of tools for helping to organize and deal with people. It also gives them a network of folks to glean information from that they don't get on the unit level. I do belive that WB has helped to strengthen packs to grow and sustain themselves long term.

[ScoutBox 11]

SR540. One thing that I did see on the course is that the Cub Leaders gained a lot. They are an important part of the BSA. I feel that Cubs is the Base for the BSA. And it needs to do more to train them. If the Cub experinse is great the boys are more likely to continue on to Scouts. And from the group we just got they are motivated, and want to be there.