New Philmont adult square not effective June 1, 2008

[gcnphkr 11]

I don't think this is so bad. PTC is under utilized and many have not even heard of it. Anything to encourage the instructors, they pay for their week just like the participants. It is a bit odd that they did not make it retroactive.

[click23 66]

I do not believe there was anything on the form that stated it was not retroactive.

[GNX Guy 10]

It sure does, in bold black print............All Actions for the PTC Master Track Square Knot must be earned after June 1, 2008. All Course taken prior this date will not be counted.

 

And I gotta tell ya, the arrogant comment in the 2nd post of this thread by OldGreyEagle really is more than a tad un Scout like. I go to the PTC to gain knowledge and to learn of new contacts which in turn will hopefully allow me to provide a better program for the youth. By participating in a conference last year at the PTC, I was able to share my knowledge and gain new knowledge to better deliver the scouting program to over 1000 every mentally and physically disabled / special needs scouts. OldGreyEagle thinks it was a waste.

 

So, those of us that take a week or more of vacation to attend the PTC should feel like outcasts.

 

Your statement clearly demonstrates that YOU think training is worthless. What a pity. Maybe you should try some training sometime.

 

So, you must also look down upon those that take a family vacation every year too? Or those that go to summer camp every year with their unit. It's all about choices and what you want to do to better the program for the youth. I / we choose to go to Philmont, my children and wife LOVE it. I'm very happy to give them the experience. It's a lot less expensive than Disney.

 

What I have learned and the contacts I have made throughout the country at the PTC have been so valuable in bettering the program for the youth I serve.

 

I guess I'll feel ashamed if I attend PTC next year.

 

(This message has been edited by GNX Guy)(This message has been edited by GNX Guy)(This message has been edited by GNX Guy)

[Bob White 20]

GNX got in with the right info first.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[click23 66]

GNX Guy, You are correct. I know better than make a post without a reference in hand. I have mixed thoughts on this knot. One one hand I can see how one would not like it, but if one was wearing I bet they would get tons of questions about it, more opportunity to tell other about PTC.

[captainron14 11]

GNX Guy, giving OGE the benefit of reason, I do not think he thinks any training is worthless.

PTC is a great resource and a great opportunity for those able to go.

Obviously you did not go there to qualify for a knot. Most scouters are involved in the program for the right reasons (the boys).

The point OGE was trying to make is that we seem to be swamped with a bunch of knots that are basically there for the money.

Most Scouters go their entire time in the program without any recognition except training awards (no monetary contribution to get) and the occasional honor award (DAM, SB, etc).

There is nothing wrong with being able to go to PTC (or be a life member of NESA, etc.), it's just there should not be a need to have a knot for it.

If this trend keeps going, rich parents will be able to "buy" their Son's Eagle for them by making a "size-able" contribution to FOS.

Just my 2 cents and change.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

YiS

 

[jr56 92]

Obviously, there is much value in a PTC. And the BSA wants to encourage utilization of the PTC. If offering a square knot will encourage it, why not. Too many people get their undies all in a bunch over people that look at things differently than they do. If wearing a bunch of knots on your uniform is your thing, fine, if not wearing anything on your uniform strikes your fancy, equally as fine.

Just don't criticize the people on the other side of the fence.

 

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Holy Cow GNXGuy, I missed your comment about my post the first time around. You are going to have to show me where I said or even implied that PTC training was a waste, in another thread I asked if PTC level training was ever available in places other than PTC as I would like to attend and the cost of travel to PTC for me is prohibitive.

 

I had always thought that knots were awarded for acheivements or service and that were open to anyone. Anyone, well any male, can earn Eagle, Arrow of Light or Religious award as a youth and then after that, anyone can earn or receive the rest of the knots. Some are much harder than others and then the BSA came up with the James West knot, the knot you buy. Then there is the PTC knot. I can see in a few years a whole bunch of PTC knots popping up in New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, and a whole bunch of other western states. On the east coast there will be far fewer of them but that doesnt mean the east coast thinks PTC is a waste, it just costs a whole lot more to get there. Thats all, if anyone thinks I disparaged training, I really did not intend to and would like to have the verbage pointed out as I do not want to make that error again(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[John-in-KC 311]

On June 24 I said:

 

Who is on drugs at the National Office?

 

I'll amend that now, having been to PTC and having seen the requirement to teach. I firmly believe that "Knowledge is Power ... But only when it's SHARED." I despise folks who play "I've got a Secret," "Stump the Chump," or "Just a Tidbit." Those 3 headgames use knowledge not as a tool, but as a weapon... to insult or to humiliate.

 

The teaching requirement is a supporter/enabler to my belief: Don't go to PTC simply for a vacation (though my week was a huge recharge), go to gain information or skills which can be shared with other adults or with the youth we serve.

 

As others said, folks are being encouraged to share info.

 

Click and GNX, thank you for having shared the content of the memo we all got during our various weeks below the Tooth.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[HawkUH60 10]

Hello

I am new here....saw the message about the PTC knot. I was there in June (last week of June) and they announced the knot. in a nut shell you do have to go again and get 2 people to go...maybe 3. I do have the letter at home if you want I can scan it to you. shoot me an email at john.green3@us.army.mil. I also saw it on ebay today...looks kind of cubbie like...bright yellow with a red knot....New Mexico flag colors

I like PTC but $1000 for registration and air fair is alot to ask of someone. I would assume its to try and get the attendence number up at PTC...if you wanted to get a knot you could always donate that $1000 to your councils James West fund...lol

YIS