Abel Magwitch 10 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The following is a statement that has been used several times by the BSA by different spokesmen: "Learning for Life programs are not Boy Scout programs and Boy Scout membership requirements have no relevance to Learning for Life programs." So with such an official response coming out of national to the media, I cannot see how this Cub Pack is getting away with having girls participate in the Pack and registering that member as LFL, a school based program. (Deron Smith, a spokesman for Boy Scouts of America, wrote the above in one of two e-mails to the St. Petersburg Times) http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/k12/board-members-hold-fast-to-rejecting-program-affiliated-with-boy-scouts/1196526 Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 MOMOF2CUBS. the reason is many of the girls are siblings of Boy Scouts......My Daughter has been involved in girl scouting and it's program cannot hold a candle to the Program that the Troops and Packs have. GSA is a rip....You sell cookies and make 50 cents a box.....My daughter worked her heart out sold 200 something boxes and got a rainbow bandana......yeahhhhh. Then before the big overnight at the zoo the scout leader quit......So where did the cookie money go???? Could you buy us the tickets and let us take her? Yep, the girl scout leaders keep the cookie money even if the troop disbands. Girl scout troops do not have to take every girl.......We have been told she is too young, to old and not from their area of town. She is 10 years old and cannot find a Girl Scout troop.....We have looked for 9 months......I call weekly to the district office and leave a message on a voicemail. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle732 27 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Wonder what will happen next year when little Alejandra wants to cross over to Troop 121 and Scoutmaster John Stansfield has to sign her application which states she must be a BOY? This is the shame of the whole situation. The adults are basically lying to allow this girl to be a Scout and like all lies it will eventually come back to create trouble and hurt this girl who is only doing what the adults are allowing her to do. Too bad. Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4349 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 We don't know how much they are "lying". Seems like the cards are all on the table. There's no telling how much the young lady is aware of it. But it sure does sound like "hiding in plain site." Considering how few cubs actually cross-over, there's even-odds that this will be an issue for her in two years. But, if it is, here's hoping the GS troops in her area will be a good fit for those 4 years before she's a venturer. (BD's experience parallels mine. There was simply no scouting for my daughter until she finished 8th grade!) Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle732 27 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 BD, I though GS was all inclusive, doesn't sound like it from your experience. Even if a group is "all inclusive" not everyone will be happy and of course there's those pesky unintended consequences. This little clip is an interesting insight on how trying to please everyone never works. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzDjl6ticuk Link to post Share on other sites
momof2cubs 10 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Basement: I heard that complaint before. Basically that the GSA program is a pale shadow of the BSA program. The thing is, I would think that the solution is to shore up the GSA program. Many people on this forum and others I know in real life are very active in ensuring a quality BSA program for boys. I suppose that it is a shame that no one seems to care in the GSA side. And I know we will have to agree to disagree, but I do not believe in girls in BSA. I just don't. Most particularly at the middle and high school level. Boys need a place where they can be themselves. Link to post Share on other sites
Jeffrey H 25 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I still don't understand the obsession with including girls in BOY SCOUTS. (cap for emphasis, not yelling). I can only imagine the reaction of GSA if my son wanted to join one of their troops. I believe in a co-ed world for children, but some things ought to remain by boys and for boys. I understand your position. However, many scout associations and around the world are co-ed at all ages. Now, I'm not saying the BSA should do that but just an observation. I applaud the Cubmaster of this Pack of at least trying to be "above board" to register this girl rather than just putting a uniform on her and sneaking her in. Registering her through LFL was a clever move but I'm not sure how well that is going to work in the long-run. One question I have is she covered by BSA insurance like the other Cub Scouts since she is officially registered through the LFL program? This one will be interesting to watch. Link to post Share on other sites
Abel Magwitch 10 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I predict that the BSA will turn a blind eye to the breach in their policies concerning girls not being allowed to join the Cub Scouts as this is the first Hispanic Pack in the city and the BSA is pushing their Hispanic Initiative and will not want to make waves by putting the kibosh on this new Hispanic Pack which is obviously thriving. It is also apparent that the council must feel that it is ok to break their own policies by allowing this girl to be a Cub Scout while registering under a program that the BSA emphatically states is NOT a Boy Scout program. This girl is not receiving the LFL program for which she was registered, she is receiving the Cub Scout program and the LFL registration was only a formality to get her officially on the membership rolls. From my own personal observations over the years I have found that the BSA will only adhere to their own policies out of convenience - if it's going to cost the council money, council will break BSA policies; if there is money to be made by deviating from a BSA policy, they will simply overlook them. This is a success story, a success story all away around. This is an active Pack which is serving youth, and most importantly for the council, it is bringing in funds. Good monies have already been spent uniforming the new girl Cub. And the BSA was able to collect some dough by registering her even though she is not getting the LFL program which she was registered for. You can bet that the BSA will be more than happy having this girl Cub selling popcorn. What is unfortunate for the girl is that she is part of an all boy inclusive Cub Scout program, all her books - wolf, bear, webelo are boy inclusive. Cub Scout materials are for the boys and are not co-ed. No girls allowed says the BSA. On a side note: somebody asked the question if LFL was covered by the supplemental insurance. The answer is yes.(This message has been edited by abel magwitch) Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2781 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I was told a few years back that it is the GSA who keeps the BSA from considering girls in the Cub Scout program, not the BSA. Barry Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle732 27 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I agree Abel, the professionals do not live up to the ideas of Scouting. Where does "Trustworthy" apply in this situation? It becomes very hard to be associated with a group that is lead by a bunch of hypocrites that I have no respect for. I've gotten to the point where I just have o tune out all the stuff going on and focus on my priority, my troop. Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 She is a LFL member.....I don't see a problem or rule violation. Momof2cubs.....I know your position about girls is scouting and why....... I tried to be a GSA leader and was told that men could not be leaders.......That is fine, the girls loose in the end. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle732 27 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Well I see a problem and rule violation. The application says you must a boy to join Cubs. Can a 12 y.o. Boy Scout join a Venture crew? He's registered in a BSA program. Of course not, he doesn't meet the joining requirements. As an SM I've had to turn away boys who were 10 y.o. because they had not been in Cubs and earned AOL, they did not meet the joining requirements. Same thing. Alejandra does not meet the joining requirements to be a Cub Scout. Nor will she be able to meet the requirements to be a Boy Scout. And there's a reason for these rules. What happens when Alejandra joins Troop 121 next year and wants to go on here first camping trip? Does she share a tent with her male patrol mates? (of course maybe they'll have an all girl patrol by then!) Does the SM have to recruit a female ASM before she can attend a camping trip? Venture Crew Advisors are trained and have a support system in place for a coed program and they're dealing with older more mature members. It's one thing when Cubs are at the meeting hall doing crafts or on a family camping trip with mom and dad, quite another when we get into Boy Scouts. At least it's suppose to be. Sorry, we have rules. Seems like the Scout thing to do is to work to change the rules we don't like instead of circumventing them. I don't see how any of this is good for anyone involved. Just my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites
Abel Magwitch 10 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 http://www.bsalegal.org/gender-cases-226.asp And yet in other parts of the country, girls have been turned away from Cub Scouts. People have actually taken the BSA to court. The BSA maintains that its Cub Scout and Boy Scout programs are for boys only. Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 In rereading what Abel posted earlier than in thread.........I recant what I said. LFL is not a scout program then......Not sure what or how the young lady is enjoying Cub scouting program. No clue.......The DE's response was they are doing what and NO. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle732 27 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 "The DE's response was they are doing what and NO" Who's DE yours or the girls packs DE? Link to post Share on other sites
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