Den Numbers

[83Eagle 11]

Careful, momof2, cub scouts is all about arts and crafts and isn't supposed to be real scouting...LOL

[momof2cubs 10]

And I know you meant it in jest, but that attitude is prevalent. And I'm tired of it. It is condescending and insulting to leaders that work hard at keeping the outing in cub scouting.

[83Eagle 11]

I know exactly what you mean. And I recall that scoutnut is a tiger den leader and this is not directed at him. But I am so tired of cub scouts being both the red headed stepchild AND the breadwinner. We constantly read here from experienced scouters about how cub scouts don't belong in the program. However there are twice as many cub scouts as boy scouts.

 

A lot of the same scouters who look down their noses at cub scouts then expect cub scout packs to feed them a steady stream of new recruits.

 

Scouters complain that boys are not ready for the model of boy scouts, but how much do they do to reach out to packs and work with them to show them the difference and the benefits?

 

Instead all we hear is the cub scout program denigrated, and terms like "webelos 3" made up to describe boy scouts who don't measure up to the program in the minds of some.

 

So yeah, to me making a big deal about terminology is foolish. We dress webelos up in the tan uniform, let them wear boy scout patrol patches, and tell them we are training them for the boy scout program. Picking nits about this kind of stuff does not help.

[83Eagle 11]

Oh BTW, our webelos dens have two patrols, two elected denners who operate as patrol leaders, and we will keep doing that. By the same token, we stress to boys that this is only an introduction and that boy scouts is much different.

 

Likewise, it is incumbent on the leaders of the troop to get boys up to speed when they come in, and work with us beforehand to help boys understand the difference and transition.

[momof2cubs 10]

83Eagle: I wish there were more scouters like you.

[83Eagle 11]

I'm nothing special, just someone who is proud of both my Arrow of Light and of my Eagle, and who feels that both programs are a natural complement to each other if they are run correctly. I mean, we've had what...90 years of the cub scout program?...and it has gone pretty well. It's not like the membership decline happened because we rolled out this newfangled thing called "Cub Scouts" in the 70s.

 

Perhaps most important, internicene squabbles benefit no one. Give the cubbies some love everyone and quit blaming your recruiting woes on the blue tabs.

 

Sorry for continuing to take this tread off the topic of den numbers, but the subject came up here and it's one that I feel strongly about.

[ScoutNut 147]

While it might seem trivial, or condescending, to you, terminology can be important.

 

Webelo instead of Webelos

 

Patrol instead of den

 

Patrol Leader instead of Denner

 

Why not just call the Pack a Troop, and a Cubmaster by the title of Scoutmaster.

 

Cub Scouting and Boy Scouting are two completely different programs. Using program terminology incorrectly does not make a Webelos any more ready to crossover to Boy Scouting, or increase Scout retention.

 

And, yes, I have been a Tiger den leader for 10+ years. I have also been den leader for every other Cub level. I have worn many Cub hats. I have served on the Troop Committee for my son's Troop. I have been on the district/council training staff. I have also been a Unit Commissioner.

 

I am not putting down any part of the BSA program.

 

I simply see the value in calling an apple an apple, and not a pickle.

 

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

83Eagle,

 

Amen brother, amen.

[83Eagle 11]

No, ScoutNut, what seems condescending to me is the continued use of made-up terminology like "Webelos 3 Troops."

 

I've been called a scoutmaster, though I'm not. Our pack has been called a troop, though we're not. Our scouts have been called Boy Scouts, though they're not. A single Webelos scout is quite commonly incorrectly referred to as a Webelo, though he's not.

 

But I pick my battles on those things, including when a Webelos den leader wants to use the term patrol for dens, though they're not. Truthfully I'm just happy to have a DL who is engaged enough to be forward-looking, and enough interested boys that we have enough for two Webelos dens.

 

None of those scenarios get my dander up to the extent that the continued use of pejorative terms against cub scouts does. So yes, I do completely agree that terminology can be important.(This message has been edited by 83eagle)

[ScoutNut 147]

Your right, instead of the made-up name of Webelos 3 Troop, I should have just said Cub Scout Pack.