Cross the entire Pack over

[beardad]

My Sons' pack does a graduation ceremony that is separate from the crossover. the cross over is done in March. Did it last night in fact, the grad ceremony is done at the last pack meeting of the year. last year they did a zip line and each kid got to put on his new necker at the bottome of the line.

[Basementdweller]

Long story about the webelos crossover..........This Pack ignores most of Cub and scouting traditions, But we are working on it. They did scout sunday and the blue and gold for the first time in years. Pinewood derby.......this weekend.......

 

Eating that elepant one bite at a time.

[Scoutfish]

Okay, I'm trying to understand something here: Overall, the message I am getting is that by letting all cubs participate in the crossover, we are somehow disrespecting the program ment for the scouts.

 

But what if the scouts themselves do not seem to have an issue?

What if they don't feel disrespected by having all their friends participate in aceremony that signifies completion of a rank and mobvement to the next one?

 

Another premis that is held in here is KIS-MIF. Also many , many coments are made about how to retain kids for next year as well as having a fun, exciting program.

 

Yet as soon as somebody does, a bunch of adults belittle you for doing what the adults percieve as insulting. Well thats great if you are insulted, but since the whole program is about the boys, and ALL the Cubs including the Webelos had a blast and didn't act insulted, I think somebody forgot the "disrespected" cub's mindset.

 

Has anybosy had a Boy Scout go rogue or drop out of the program because he was insulted by a Cub Scout crossing over/ graduating to/ starting the next Cub Scout rank?

 

(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

[Scoutfish]

 

 

Okay, not exactly the best choice of words.

Our program year is not over, but by this time, most rank badges are met or obtained, most dens are pretty much finished with all the planned activities and we are kinda just playing it by ear. So many sports and etra cirricular activities are kicking in by this time that attendance is down.

 

Oh, this is late April by the way, not already passed now.

 

And honestly, this is my first time daling with this, so I won't argue that it'spractical as compared to other programs as I don't know.

 

 

But at this point, we are done with den "Requirement reaching" goals. Or better put, we arent' working on things tnat have to be done to earn your rank badge. By now, it's all electives and arrow points.

 

As far as the whole year, again, not best choice of words, but just meanuing kids who didn't drop out or stop participating 2,3 ,5 ,months ago.

[Basementdweller]

Scoutfish relax as you said your experience is only 6 months or so. Not intended as anything other than a statement. Open your mind and consider the possibilities.

 

Crossover was initially a Webelos event only. Mine was and every Pack I have been involved with as an adult. Webelos were crossing over to boy scouts and leaving Cub Scouts. It was an exciting and sad time all at once. Adding the boys who were remaining Cubs lessened or diluted the emotion and ceremony. In my opinion and experience.

 

The problem stems from the poor organization of this Pack. Instead of crossing the Webelos over in February or early March they wait till May. Next year we will Cross the Webelos over in February and then Graduate the rest of the Pack in May. Problem solved. BTW the SM is loving it.

 

You need to understand that every single rank advancement, pin and belt loop is special.

 

Our rank advancements went from a ziploc bag hand shake to me dressing up in native american regalia and spinning stories of clever wolves and brave bears around a fake campfire in the gym. The boys earning their advancements eyes were wide and they were excited as they were called down to share the campfire and the story.

 

The point of that is if every single Cub walks that bridge before the webelos, then how is it special for the Webelos?? Crossover is their Special night/event.

 

Scoutfish your enthusiasm will take you far as a scouting volunteer, Have you found a scouting mentor in your area yet????? Have you attended your districts roundtable? I think you would find it enlightening, it is great being around fellow scouters. As you have guessed there is no one way to run a Scouting Program. My experience is Traditional scouting with Derbies, regattas and all.

 

But there is nontraditional units around that are successful too. Don't do the outdoors no pinewood and no church. I think that makes the scouts experience less than it could have been. My philosophy is offer it all and let them chose. We offer Saturday activity's two or three times a month, all are optional.

 

Summing up that mess, I believe there should be two separate ceremonies. The first in February for the webelos crossover and the second in May to graduate the rest of the Cubs.

 

 

[zippyboro]

"Another premis that is held in here is KIS-MIF. Also many , many coments are made about how to retain kids for next year as well as having a fun, exciting program. Yet as soon as somebody does, a bunch of adults belittle you for doing what the adults percieve as insulting. Well thats great if you are insulted, but since the whole program is about the boys, and ALL the Cubs including the Webelos had a blast and didn't act insulted, I think somebody forgot the "disrespected" cub's mindset. "

 

^^Scoutfish... chill! Expressing a contrary opinion should not be interpreted as insulting. If you are looking to be insulted, go to the

"Killing for food (not hunting)" thread, express a contrary opinion and proceed to be labeled a "pant waist sissy." Scout leadership at its finest... but I digress...

 

Of course the boys will have no problem with treating every end of year as a crossover... why would they? But you can't deny that crossing that bridge just to get a new neckerchief year after year will ultimately diminish that experience come 5th grade. As adults, we have to be able to perceive what they may not realize as elementary aged kids. Totally agree with Basement... keep it separate from the Web 2's and treat it as a graduation of sorts. What I really object to is how our pack makes such a big deal over the tigers only.

[Eagle92]

Zip,

 

The 'Big Deal" with Tigers may depend upon how old the pack is and what traditions they have. Sometimes tradition is a hard thing to break, i.e. the pack that will not do a Crossover until May b/c that's how it's always been for the past 75+ years in the pack.

 

You see once upon a time, Tigers were a separate program from CS. When they complete the school year, they first received a big, 3" square "Tiger Cub Graduate" patch. this was later changed to a Tiger Cub Graduate strip to be worn under the right pocket. Then when TCs were fully incorporated into CS, they did away with the strip. that's why may may see some 35 and under Scouter's wearing an orange backign with a 1 year star, to represent their year as a Tiger Cub.

[zippyboro]

eagle,

You are right, pack tradition is hard to break, however, this "tradition" started after the tigers were integrated into the CS program and even after they started wearing the blue unis. I know this is just a pet peeve on my part, but it points to a larger issue in this pack of little time and opportunity to hand out advancements. Pack meetings end in April, and it is frowned upon to use the Blue and Gold in Feb and the Web crossover in March to hand out advancements. By the time you get to April, there is a load of advancements with little time and attention given to them with the inclusion of the tiger crossover.

[Eagle92]

WOW, now grant you I can understand not giving out every piece of advancement, my pack only gave out rank, i.e. Tiger Cub, Wolf, etc badges out, saving the beads and electives to the next pack meeting.

 

Plus what is up with ending in April? My pack is year round, grant you the summer months are every other week and the focus is FUN, i.e. family campouts, baseball games, pool party, etc. But we are still meeting.

[Cubby's Cubmaster]

Hi, Basement Dweller. Our pack has a Move-Up Family Picnic the Thursday before school lets out for the year (usu. the last Thurs of May or first Thurs of June.) The pack provides the grilled meats KNFs,plates & napkins, the pack families brings the sides, desserts, drinks etc. It is one of our most popular events as we play games until past dusk.

 

If the pack runs a surplus we give out neckerchiefs, slides & books. We bring out the pack bridge and have the kids walk across. We also give out leader gifts at this end of the school year event. This year, we advance in rank at the BG Celebration in March and Move Up to the next level by den at the Move Up Picnic in June. Our advancment is over 90%, leader participation at monthly leader meetings is at all time highs and we've got most of our leaders trained and are requiring it for any new leaders. Overall, the Move-Up picnic is part of the program that helps make scouting fun while giving the kids a message that they are no longer tigers but now wolves, no longer wolves but now bears, etc.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cubby's Cubmaster

[John-in-KC]

The best end-of-school year program I saw for a Pack was a family campfire and dessert night. The pack celebrated each kid moving up, and starting into the next rank advancement system (just in time for day camp and Webelos Camp). Local Scout honor societies provided youth in regalia to support the event.

 

Young people like being in the spotlight. Help them along...

 

What you call it matters not; the concept is Cubs are moving along the journey of their lives.

[DYB-Mike]

The problem stems from the poor organization of this Pack. Instead of crossing the Webelos over in February or early March they wait till May.

 

Basementdweller, lets not give our friend Scoutfish the wrong impression. Crossing Over in May is not necessarily due to poor organization. It is our Packs tradition and our Scoutmaster loves it. I have expained the whys in other threads so suffice it to say here that it works for all concerned.

 

We do not have a graduation for our remaining Cub ranks (although I like the idea and am giving it some thought for our Pack), but at the Cross Over, which is held at our May Family Campout, we award ranks and other awards to any other Cubs who have earned them at that time. In fact, the Tigers have a special ceremonial Drinking of the Buffalo Blood thats done at the Family Campout as well. Granted, the Webelos who are crossing over are the main event, but the recognition of the other Cub Scouts achievements hasnt detracted from that special ceremony.

 

If (or maybe when) our Pack had a graduation ceremony for the other Cubs, I would suggest that it not involve the Cross Over Bridge. I do agree that the Bridge should be reserved for the Webelos who are crossing to Boy Scouts, but that said, its different strokes for different folks.

 

YIS,

Mike

 

(This message has been edited by DYB-Mike)

[Basementdweller]

 

 

It is my opinion and I bet a large number of SM will probably agree that W2's need to cross over early March at the latest. This is to begin their basic training before the Summer Camp.

 

If you cross the W2's over in May I believe that it is a recipe for failure, How many times have you had a New Scout go to summer camp with a troop, get home sick, call mom go home to never be seen again.

 

 

The graduation is a picnic sort of affair, fishing, belt loops and a ceremony.

 

 

[DYB-Mike]

If you cross the W2's over in May I believe that it is a recipe for failure,

 

All I can say is from my experience with our Pack and Troop over the last four years is that there is a high retention rate with our May cross over Scouts.

 

Basementdweller, I dont know where your region is but the logic for us is that there is a greater recipe for failure to put new scouts with little camping experience out in the cold and snow that we have in New England prior to May.

 

The boys Cross Over in May is a campout and as new scouts they also get a camping trip in June. The new scouts and parents get a couple of info sessions on summer camp as well before they go.

 

Could it be done differently, with more cold weather camping for the Webelos? Perhaps, but the bottom line is if it works and the retention is there why change it? More to the point, if it works for us then perhaps it would work for others with the proper planning.

 

YIS

Mike

 

[Basementdweller]

In our region, Boy Scouts get the Council camps in June and early july. The cubs and Webelos mid july and August.

 

So it is a difference in a regions.

 

If it works for you, great.