Basementdweller 608 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 This evening I was informed that a den leader will be returning. The issue I have with her returning is she quit last year with out telling anyone. How is that you ask? We meet in separate meeting rooms on the same night at the CO. She just stopped coming, she even dropped her son off at the meeting. She never quit just stop coming, Very uncool in my book. I ended up with both dens. The Cub Master sees nothing wrong with her coming back. I am more than a little miffed hearing this, Especially with the way it all went down. No way I could trust her. I asked him in what capacity would she return. Cub Master said as a Den Leader. I couldn't believe my ears. The thing that ticked me off the most was the end of the year picnic, she showed up and posed with the den in her leader gear. Unbelievable. I understand I have absolutely no recourse to prevent this from happening again. But it is still BS. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Don't you love seeing the lessons of the bible replayed in modern life? Are you familiar with the biblical story of the Prodigal Son? For whatever reason a den leader walked away from her position in the pack leaving you to do your work and hers. I am sure that the work you did for with the pack is greatly appreciated. You stepped up and did more than your share, and there esteem for you is probably more than you will ever know. So now the lost Den Leader has returned and the Cubmaster is happy about her return, and has restored her to her previous place in pack, and you are angry because she ran out on everyone and has come back and the CM is not upset but instead is happy she has come back, and you feel that is is unfair to you. About the only thing missing here is a fatted calf . Do you recall what the lessons that this parable teaches? (This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 While Bob's bible lesson is applicable, I can understand your frustration. Just be prepared to pick up her den when she drops out again! And it is possible she has a medical condition that is causing this behavior. Ed Mori A blessed Christmas to all. Link to post Share on other sites
packsaddle 753 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 I'm with Bob on this. She has nothing to explain if she doesn't want to. The problem is really in your own mind. Welcome her back. Link to post Share on other sites
raisinemright 13 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 While there are definite correlations to the prodigal son, I must disagreee with BW and PS. This isn't a boy scout who abandoned his POR so he could play basketball, it is a Den Leader who is responsible to lead and mentor a bunch of Cub Scouts. If you study the prodigal son parable, you'll note that the son did receive gifts from his father upon his return including a coat, ring and a party complete witht eh reguisite fatted calf, however, you also note by it's ommission that he was not restored to the father's will. All the father had remaining would be going to his other son. The corollary here is the same as with the prodigal den leader. Trust but verify should be used in this case. A heart to heart with her between the pack leadership is necessary to see why she is returning and to have reasonable assurance that she will remain. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle92 110 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 I have to agree with Raisinemright. Yes it's great that she's back and should be welcomed to the fold. However a nice cup of coffee with the CM and CC is in order to express your concerns. It may very well be that there is a private matter involved,i.e. illness, death, divorce, loss of job, etc., that is in play and known only to those two folks. I'll give you an example, my old SM was a phenominal leader who was in that position for 24 years. During the 25th year, his mom got gravely ill and died. He took it very hard, and stopped showing up to meetings and activities, and only the CC and the ASM who would replace him knew what was going on. None of the youth, other ASMs, committee members, or parents knew what was really up. However if she did just drop off the face of the Earth with no reasons or without informing the CM or CC, then "Be Prepared" to take over her den as well IF the time comes. Remember we are in this for the boys. Hopefully you will be VERY surprised and she stays. Link to post Share on other sites
RememberSchiff 3683 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 You are not obligated to take over another leader's den. If the sudden "added scouts" to your den is your main complaint, be aware as a volunteer den leader, you set the size of the den that you can handle. When "she" suddenly left, her ADL should have stepped up. If that did not happen, the CM should have convened a den parent meeting and recruited a new DL. Yes, we are here for the scouts but we can set our limits. Family first. Keep it simple, make it fun applies to us adult volunteers too.(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff) Link to post Share on other sites
Sarge 10 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Welcome her back. There is no such thing as too many adult volunteers in Cub Scouts. But be leary that she may disappear from the Pack again. If I were the CM, I would appoint her as an ADL do minimize the effects should she cut bait this time too. I would think she should at least have the decency to apologize to you and offer an explanation as to why she dumped everything in your lap last year. Link to post Share on other sites
Karen_216 10 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 If she informed the CM she no longer could be a leader then he shuold have told you. I'd discuss wiht CM and CC that in evetn she does it again you need ot know. If they did not mention anything then I'd be happy to have her as an assistant. i had a Committee member ocme to me right before the year and tell me he couldn't do the popcorn and awards. he took under confidence of his reasons and I agrred not to let anyone know why. I just told them he could not do them anymore. If some one asked I told them it was due to conflicts. People have many reasons- whether medical or that she was overwhelemd it should not have fallen on you without your consent. Are these members now in your den? If so then give her some meetings to do and let her help. you'll soon see if she is back or not. BTY I had a co-leader do similar. we both signed up as leaders and I could never get in touch with him and I had to bring my own meeting plans in case he did not show. All I asked form him was if he was goingt o be ata meeting and confirm he had plans. He eventually dropped out and his son as well.(and left whole pack in the lurch too as he had taken on CC role) Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 Unfair is not what I was thinking. There is no wealth or fame to be gained in scouting. Just a lot of work. I have no problem sharing the work with someone I can trust. For the record, she was grocery shopping while he was at the meeting and socializing at Starbucks(same plaza). Da wife saw her on two separate occasions. I asked if the CM heard from her regarding missing the first couple of meetings, he called and she said she was busy. Why bring her back as a den leader, why not Assistant Cub Master or Assistant Den Leader? Something were if she decides to take another sabbatical it won't affect the dens as much. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I guess that is just not your decision as a den leader. No one forced you to help out the scouts from her den. It was very nice of you to take on that extra work. But I do not think that gives you the responsiblity to judge her or to determine if she should return or not. Just because they welcomed her back does not mean they no longer like you. This is between The Committee Chair, the Cubmaster, and her. I could see how others who have no responsibility in the matter might make her return even harder through their complaining and gossip and that would be unfortunate and as unscoutlike as the behavior they are complaining about.(This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to post Share on other sites
Pack212Scouter 10 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 While it is certainly acceptable for you to express you concerns privately with the CM or CC, ultimately it is the decision of the CC and the COR whether she returns as a leader. If I were they, we would have a heart to heart with her prior to accepting her return. Link to post Share on other sites
Novice_Cubmaster 10 Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Yo, BasementDweller! It's not just between the CM, CC, COR & the returning leader. It's a pack management issue. When you jumped into the breach, you let the CM & CC off the hook for having a leaderless den (so, where was the ADL???) and not dealing with this situation when she first stopped showing up. A. By welcoming the "prodigal" leader back, the CM & CC dodge any possibly unpleasant confrontations. B. Knowing they have a responsible & committed person like you to take up the slack if the "prodigal" flakes out again, the CM & CC dodge the the potential consequences of letting them come back. Just like different positions on a baseball team, all BSA leadership positions have a distinct defined set of responsibilities. And just like players on a team, it is reasonable for Unit Leaders to expect everyone "on the team" to live up to the responsibilities of their position. Ultimately, it is up to the CC and the COR to decide whether she returns as a leader. But it should also be incumbent upon the CC & CM to do two things: 1. privately tell the returning leader that her previous actions were not acceptable. 2. give the rest of the Unit Leaders reason to think this situation won't repeat itself. BSA policy - no. Common courtesy/good team management - yes. NC Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted December 19, 2008 Author Share Posted December 19, 2008 Bob you are correct, It isn't my decision. But I don't have to like or even Live with it. Well I think I am done with this Pack. I had a chat with the CM and didn't like the answers I was getting. As eluded too earlier in the thread, his attitude was well we made it work. What do you mean we????? In the last year I have meet some fantastic people in scouting thru Pow Wow and Baloo and Owl training. Several have extended invitations to Transfer to their Pack. My son and I are visiting them starting the first week in January. I have already sent a couple of emails and have received a deluge in response. Nice to be around like minded people. Did I mention I had all of the dens last week I was the only den leader to show up. The CM and other ACM were socializing with the parents while I tried to salvage some sort of a meeting. It isn't supposed to be like this, I don't care what you say. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle92 110 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 basement, Sorry to hear that about the pack, but can understand. Sounds like they have issues, good luck in finding a new pack. Link to post Share on other sites
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