do your best versus doing to completion

[JeffD 10]

had a group of webelos attend a camping event with the local boy scout groups.

 

one boy has some medical issues and is having problems with his medication. because of this he only stayed at the campout for a little more than an hour. i truly feel bad for the boy and want him to be able to experience the camping with the scout troop.

 

instead of finding another campout that the boy could actually camp with the scouts - the leader signed off saying he did his best and thats all we need to worry about.

 

does this also mean if i can say "a scout is trustworthy, loyal, well i forget the rest" that i should also be signed off on that for my AOL? to me i dont see the difference.

 

i would have rather found an event on another day that works well with his medical treatments. since we are in florida, we can camp in the winter when it drops to a chilly 60 degrees (he CAN camp - just had issues with getting acclimated to a new medicine from what i was told)

[LongHaul 10]

This touches some very sensitive spots for me. As Webelos I believe these boys should be asked to slowly shift from credit for being there to credit for completing the requirement as written.

Just which requirement was signed off? This makes a big difference, actually a boy does not need to camp to earn his Webelos Badge or AOL. There are options for completion that do not involve actual camping overnight.

LH

 

[JeffD 10]

"Participate in a Webelos overnight campout or day hike" (assuming the scout already has his outdoorsman pin) was the requirement. and i will say that i agree with your credit for completion statement. youre right... they dont need to camp - just participate in a day hike.

 

i was told by someone else that many of the requirements are 'do your best' versus completion. with AOL, the one that came up was the following:

 

Show your knowledge of the requirements to become a Boy Scout by doing all of these:

 

Repeat from memory and explain in your own words the Scout Oath or Promise and the 12 points of the Scout Law.

 

Tell how you have practiced them in your everyday life.

 

Give and explain the Scout motto, slogan, sign, salute, and handshake.

 

Understand the significance of the First Class Scout badge. Describe its parts and tell what each stands for.

 

Tell how a Boy Scout uniform is different from a Webelos Scout uniform.

 

Tie the joining knot (square knot)

 

 

i dont think we need to pistol whip these boys until they know it all - but i also think we will be doing them a disservice when they go to a troop and dont know enough to get their scout badge. and if it says to memorize - it means to memorize. i think they will be in for a big surprise and possibly drop out when they get to a troop and the troop is run in a fashion that requires them to work and not just sit there and get credit

 

for example - i find it funny how one of the leaders says her boy is ADD and therefore cannot memorize things - but they re in the same tae-kwan-do class and have to memorize (and are publicly tested almost every week) and have no problems with that...

 

talking about some of this has been a little annoying lately since to me it emphasizes the importance of (good) training - and not just flying through screens on a computer screen and calling that being trained..

 

[LongHaul 10]

When a Webelos Scout bridges in to Boy Scouting he should already be a Boy Scout except for the transferring of his registration. In his heart and in his approach to the program he should already be a Boy Scout. The Webelos program is intended to take a Cub Scout from the "credit for being there" approach to "credit for completing the requirements as written" mentality. How we expect a First Class scout to "explain how he has practiced the Oath and Law in his daily life" and how expect a Webelos to answer that question should be different because of differences in age, maturity and the level to which they are involved in the program. Webelos are along for the ride while a First Class scout could be driving. (figuratively)

I have ADD, had it as a scout, memorized the Oath and Law just fine took longer is all. Can't remember which Lincoln Trail Hike it was but we had to memorize the Gettysburg Address. Did it while hiking, as a group, out loud, not one guy had to be tested twice. Get the Webelos ready for leadership and responsibility not Webelos III. I'll PM you about the Webelos Overnight thing, if you don't get it PM me with an email address.

LH

[JeffD 10]

four score and seven years ago - i memorized it also

 

LH - PM sent back

thanks

[Jeffrey H 25]

"When a Webelos Scout bridges in to Boy Scouting he should already be a Boy Scout except for the transferring of his registration. In his heart and in his approach to the program he should already be a Boy Scout."

 

This may happen in their hearts, but the rubber meets the road when they are expected to attend monthly campouts in an active Scout Troop. Webelos rarely campout once a month and are usually not prepared for this transition. I know some Web Dens do alot of camping, but they are rare. The drop-out rate is high because those that are truly committed to Scouting stay with it. Let's face it, there are very few 11 or 12 year olds that are willing to camp in cold, wet and rainy conditions without Daddy or Mama with them.

[LongHaul 10]

Which is one reason I was initially against the February crossover. Realistically the New Scout does not have to attend the first campout or two but his association with the troop and his patrol that takes place in those first two months can make the difference when he does begin to camp. Preparing a New Scout for Cold Weather, below 50 wet or windy, is the troops responsibility. You would not take a scout to Philmont without preparing him why take a new scout out in cold wet weather without preparing him? But troops do anyway because the new scout is all gung ho and does not want to wait. The Webelos program was intended to transition the boy's mind set not give him all the camping skills of a boy scout. The camping experiences should give the boy confidence in his new troop but few actual skills.

LH

[ASM915 90]

LongHaul,

I concur about the Feb. crossover. I've been trying to get the local pack to move it to March or April, but they want the boys prepared for summer camp. We almost lost 3 of our 4 crossovers last spring. The first campout was on St Patties weekend. 20's for the low and 30's for the high, plus 2-3 inches of snow when they woke up in the morning. We tried to prepare them for cold weather camping, but you know how kids are.

 

Jeff, I agree. It would be nice to get him on another outing, if possible.

[JeffD 10]

it was just over 80 degrees here today... i wish it would get cold enough to at least kill off the skeeters

[Beavah 205]

Yah, most of us in da north hate February crossovers. Talk about dumpin' new kids in at exactly the wrong time.

 

I understand for Texans it works well, though. Beats first campouts in hot/humid summer heat and such.

 

B

 

[Jeffrey H 25]

Webelos are still Cub Scouts and the motto is "Do Your Best". Now, a Webelos Den Leader needs to determine if the Webelo actually did his best before he signs off on completion. As a Webelos I Den Leader, I know it's a transition period to Boy Scouts but they are still in the Cub Scout program. We should be not be holding them to any unrealistic standard that is not expected of a Webelos Scout.

 

That said, I do believe that when activity badge requirements use words such as "know", "memorize", or "demonstrate", I expect the Webelos to be able to show me what they have learned with a basic level of knowledge. Of course, this does require much more than simple "attendance" or merely "showing up".

 

I do take into consideration any disability that a Webelo may have in his best effort to do complete an activity badge.

[Herms 10]

This is one of the disadvantages of letting Cub Scouting events "fade away" during the summer. I have a pair of Webelo I sons and am a Webelos leader. We will be taking the dens/patrols out this July and August so that there first and second camping experiences are warm ones. Did this with my older boy's Webelos den and 4 years later we still have more active boys from that year. I really believe it was because of that first positive (warm) camping experience.

[ASM857 10]

I agree if he participated in the hike he has met tha requirment, but not for the outdoorsman. Febuary crossover is not a good thing we do a trout fishing trip first campout so that makes it in March still a bit cold but not to bad in Missouri, and the kids have fun in a relaxed enviroment.

 

YIS

Doug Buth

[JeffD 10]

well not to rub it in - but it will be in the upper 70's and maybe 80 this week

 

the summer is too miserably hot to do many outdoor events (that dont include water) during that time of year... but then again thats just my opinion