Lugnuts Dad 10 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 As part of my Wood Badge ticket, I'm "encouraging" participation in the Outdoor Activity Award and World Conservation Award within my Pack. My concern is when exactly does a Wolf become a Bear, etc. When the rank for that year is earned, at the B&G, or the end of the school year? The requirements for those awards are rank-dependent and I don't want to have to wait till the next program year starts to work on some of the requirements. Would activities that a boy does in the spring as a Wolf count toward the award as a Bear, for example? I know that a boy is considered to have advanced when it comes time to go to Day Camp, but I'm just plain confused. Any help? BTW: Our B&G is very late every year, end of May. Not my decision. Fox Patrol NE-IV-197 "Back to Gilwell..."(This message has been edited by Lugnuts Dad) Link to post Share on other sites
ScoutDadof5 10 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 I am finding that different packs take a different take on that. Look ath the following thread... (When are ranks awarded?) http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=168710 There is a "book" answer and then there is a "tradition" answer, and likely several other answers along the way as well. From a good ol fox, Michael Link to post Share on other sites
eagle-pete 11 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Boys who have completed first grade, or who are eight years old, are eligible to join the Wolf Den. At this point they begin earning the Wolf Badge. Boys who have completed second grade, or who are nine years old, are eligible to join the Bear Den. At this point they begin earning the Bear Badge. Once a boy turns nine years old, if he has not completed the Wolf Badge he can no longer work on the requirements for the Wolf Badge... only the Bear Badge. This keeps the boys in the same age group working on the same level and activities. Once a boy turns ten years old, if he has not completed the requirements for the Bear Badge or Wolf Badge he can no longer earn these awards. Boys who have completed the third grade, or who are ten years old and eligible to join the Webelos Den. At that point they may begin earning the Webelos Badge. The Wolf, Bear, and Webelos badges are earned while the boy is a member of the corresponding den for that award. Earning the badge does not constitute ranking. As for the specific awards you are working on... The requirements you are referring to should be earned during the age groups the boys are currently in for those ranks (i.e., Wolf eligible cubs should work on the Wolf requirements. Bear eligible cubs should work on the Bear requirements for this award, etc...). It is not necessary that the boys earn the badges to qualify for the awards you are working on. Just make sure they have met the age or grade level requirements for those ranks. Remember: Completed first grade or 8 yrs old = Wolf Completed second grade or 9 yrs old = Bear Completed third grade or 10 yrs old = Webelos Source: http://www.geocities.com/~pack215/requirements.html Hope this helps Eagle Pete(This message has been edited by eagle-pete) Link to post Share on other sites
Lugnuts Dad 10 Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 It helps some EP. My problem is the Day Camp requirement for the OAA falling in the middle of my ticket period. I just want to do the right thing for the kids. And I thought the headaches would go away after I wrote the darn thing. lol Link to post Share on other sites
eagle-pete 11 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Lugnuts "And I thought the headaches would go away after I wrote the darn thing. lol" What headaches are you having? About your ticket item? or about the award? Eagle Pete Link to post Share on other sites
Lugnuts Dad 10 Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 I had some trouble with the wording for my ticket, although not as much one member of my patrol. He had to rewrite his 6 or 7 times while we were at camp. Link to post Share on other sites
FScouter 24 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Another source is the BSA website: http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/awards/youth/advancement.html Link to post Share on other sites
ScoutNut 147 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 "Once a boy turns nine years old, if he has not completed the Wolf Badge he can no longer work on the requirements for the Wolf Badge... only the Bear Badge" "Once a boy turns ten years old, if he has not completed the requirements for the Bear Badge or Wolf Badge he can no longer earn these awards" Absolutely NOT!! The ONLY time a boy moves to another level on his birthday is if he is a member of an LDS Pack. Their program is STRICTLY age driven. The only time the grade or age thing comes into play (aside from LDS Units) is when a boy is INITIALLY joining a Pack/Troop. Since 1977, for the rest of the non-LDS BSA Cub Scout world, Cubs move on to their next level at the end of their school year. BSA''s computer system, ScoutNet, automatically moves every Cub Scout in it''s database up as of June 1st of every year. A Cub Scout can only earn the rank award of the level he is currently in. Boys can only work on/in ONE level at a time. Earning their rank level award has nothing to do with what level a Cub is in. ScoutNet will move them up to their next one on June 1st weather or not they have earned their rank award. BSA does make an allowance for boys who do not earn their rank award (NOT electives) by 06/01. They are allowed to take a few weeks more to work on it during the summer months (some Packs will give them the entire Summer). However, while they are working to complete their rank award they may NOT do any work in their next level at all (can only work in one level at a time). All that said, about the Outdoor Award - If a Tiger joins in June, any work he does toward the Outdoor Activity Award, including summer camp, will count toward his earning the award at the Tiger level. If a Tiger joins in September, unless his district/council has a non-summer day camp/overnight camp during the year, he can not earn the award as a Tiger. For all other levels, as of June 1st they are in their new level so any and all work done during the summer and the following school year would count toward the award for that level. For instance - Last year''s Tigers became Wolf Scouts as of 06/01/07. All work done by these Wolf Scouts toward the Outdoor Activity Award from 06/01/07 to 05/31/08 should be the Wolf requirements for the award. "Would activities that a boy does in the spring as a Wolf count toward the award as a Bear, for example?" NO - They would not count toward the Bear requirements because they were Wolves not Bears. Remember - They can only work in ONE level at a time. If none of your boys attended day camp or summer camp this past summer, unless your council runs some kind of Cub Scout overnight during the year they are out of luck until next year. Attending a council camp is the one requirement that all levels must fulfill and (IMO) the main reason this award was put together. Link to post Share on other sites
Scouting Mom 10 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 As said, there is some wiggle room in the rules. The computers at national use the date of June 1st for everyone working on a school year based system. (LDS packs are based on the boy''s age, regardless of grade level). Since the computer says June 1st, our pack and in fact, our district go with that. School is out within a week or so of then anyway. Because of the daycamp requirement for OAA, and the fact that most boys join in September, they often miss getting the OAA their first year. My Tiger son officially joined the pack on June 1, and went to daycamp in July. With a Pack camping trip the second week in June and a pack fishing trip in August, he earned it in September. In fact, most of the boys in our pack who earn it, earn it by Sept or Oct, given that they could start working on it June 1st, and we have outdoor events. BUT not one of the other Tigers in my boy''s den went to daycamp (even though several were signed up before then) so, they cannot earn the OAA at their Tiger rank. Link to post Share on other sites
eagle-pete 11 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Hmmmm... According to the site which FScouter posted above (which comes from National)... "After he has earned the Wolf badge, a boy is encouraged to work on the 22 Wolf electives until he completes second grade (or turns 9 years old)." My interpretation is this can be BOTH grade and age dependant. This is not just LDS policy. This is BSA policy. Maybe I am slow, but I do not see how my original post conflicts with BSA policies. Please enlighten me. Eagle Pete Link to post Share on other sites
John-in-KC 311 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Lugnuts Dad, Since you are working your ticket, may I point you to your District Advancement Chair and his/her copy of Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures, BSA 33088? We talk about it much in context of Boy Scout advancement, but it actually is the policy document for all advancement issues, from the newest Tiger to the aging out Venturer. John I used to be an Owl C-40-05 Link to post Share on other sites
LongHaul 10 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 >>Boys who have completed second grade, or who are nine years old, are eligible to join the Bear Den. At this point they begin earning the Bear Badge. Once a boy turns nine years old, if he has not completed the Wolf Badge he can no longer work on the requirements for the Wolf Badge... only the Bear Badge. This keeps the boys in the same age group working on the same level and activities.<< There is a little wiggle room with Cub Advancement. National uses age and grade distinctions for a reason. If a boy is gifted and skips a grade he is not required to also skip a year of Cub Scouts, he would stay with his age group. By the same token if a boy has a educational problem and repeats a grade he would not be asked to repeat a rank group, he would stay with his age group again. This means that a gifted Wolf who''s birthday falls in April and started school early (age wise) would not start working on his Bear badge until he completed 2nd grade. A Wolf whose birthday falls in September would become a Bear as soon as he completed 2nd grade even though he would not be 9 years old yet. LongHaul Link to post Share on other sites
infoscouter 11 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 EaglePete - its worded that way to fit the situations of both age-based (LDS) and grade-based packs. A pack works on one system or another - an individual boy doesn''t get to pick which system he''s going to follow. If a non-LDS pack wanted to, they could follow the age based system as well, but I know of none that do. So - a boy in a pack that follows the grade based system, is tied to the Cub Scout Cycle http://www.directservicebsa.org/pdf/13-027.pdf , and advances to the next level on June 1, with (as ScoutNut says) a few weeks to continue to earn rank if necessary. Link to post Share on other sites
Pack212Scouter 10 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Our Pack has a fair number of home schoolers and we've found that for them,sometimes we need to follow the age based guideline when they first enter the Pack. Once the boys are in the pack, they start getting credit for the next rank when the school year ends. This seems to follow the BSA guidelines as far as I can tell.(This message has been edited by Pack212Scouter) Link to post Share on other sites
LongHaul 10 Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 infoscouter, The decision to be with his age group or grade level is the scout''s and his families decision UNLESS it is a LDS unit which follow a different set of guidelines. How LDS handle gifted and educationally challenged scouts is dictated by religion and not National policy. My youngest son skipped second grade, why would a Pack require that he skip Bear and go directly to Webelos I? Had he been asked to repeat first grade why would a Pack require that he repeat Wolf which he had already earned? There is no National policy that stipulates a one or the other Pack wide system for scout placement in a den. LongHaul Link to post Share on other sites
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