ADHD Tiger Cub

[OzarksOsage 10]

I lead a Tiger Cub den of 11 scouts, one of which has been reportedly diagnosed as ADHD. The Tiger is a discipline problem, but his actions go farther than youthful enthusiasm. This Tiger has difficulty keeping his hands and feet to himself. He frequently hits, and/or kicks, and/or tackles the other Scouts. His parents are little to no help. Other parents are becoming frustrated and angry. Our Pack has no bylaws to which I can refer for policy or guidance. Already the ADHD Tigers parents are in the early stages of a major snit, because its not Johnnys fault.

 

Heres my plan:

 

1) Reiterate that a responsible adult must be present with the Tiger at all meetings to supervise their Tiger.

2) In the absence of Pack bylaws, default to the councils policy as well as the sponsoring organizations discipline policy, and be very clear what those policies mean, and that they apply to _everyone_.

3) Make it clear that there will be consequences if the hitting, etc. continues.

4) Follow through.

 

The CC and the CM are both supportive. Am I missing anything? I want to be fair, and dont want to force anyone out of Scouting-the Tiger is definately welcome to stay, he just cant be allowed to assault the other Tigers, regardless of the reason.

 

Any wisdom out there for me? Thanks!

 

Michael

 

 

[SemperParatus 1]

You are definitely on the right track. The hitting and kicking can not be tolerated regardless of the scout's problems. Hopefully, the parents and the scout are getting some professional assistance in learning how to control his behavior. If their response is simply to defend his behavior as 'not his fault' then it sounds like they are not at the point of addressing his needs.

 

I had a scout through early cubs and followed me to boy scouts that put the A in ADHD. At the beginning (when he was first diagnosed), the parents really did not know what to do with him. I don't think they ever really knew how to help him and came to see scouts as some good quality time for them by letting someone else deal with him. As a boy scout, the behavior issues escalated during our weekend camping trips (that the parents never attended). It turned out that the parents would withhold his medication on weekends (at least when he was with me).

 

Good luck.

[ScoutNut 147]

"Already the ADHD Tigers parents are in the early stages of a major snit, because its not Johnnys fault. "

 

Actually they are right, it's not all Johnny's fault. It is their falt too.

 

As the parent of an ADHD boy & his former Den Leader, I can sympathize with all of you. Impulsivness and acting out is a big part of ADHD and can be very hard to deal with. With 11 boys and their parents all together in a small meeting space, this boy would be bouncing off the walls with the distractions. However, he needs to be held accountable for his own behaviour. He also should follow the same behaviour rules as the other boys.

 

Some thoughts:

 

You said "1) Reiterate that a responsible adult must be present with the Tiger at all meetings to supervise their Tiger."

 

It can't hurt to repeat this, although there should be no need. It is a BSA rule and should be made clear to all Tiger familes at the outset. Also, the adult is not just there to supervise, his boy. They are partners, a team, and everything the Tiger does the Tiger Partner should do too.

 

"2) In the absence of Pack bylaws, default to the councils policy as well as the sponsoring organizations discipline policy, and be very clear what those policies mean, and that they apply to _everyone_."

 

One thing you might do is to have the boys come up with their own Den rules & consequences (guided by you). Write them up on a big poster board so they are right there in front of everyone each meeting. The boys seem to pay more attention to rules if they are "their" rules.

 

Another thing you might do is to have a 1 on 1 conversation with the parents. Next year you will have this boy on his own, without parents, so you need to get a handle on him now. Find out if he is on medication. If he is newly diagnoised they may still be trying to find the right medication/dosage that works best for him. If your meetings are in the evening, one problem could be that his meds have worn off & he is experiencing a re-bound effect that, in some cases, makes his behaviour worse. You could suggest that the family talk to their doctor about a small dose in the evening. This would help for all of his after school activites. If they are not medicating him (or don't want to do an evening dose) then you will have to come to some understanding of a plan to modify his behaviour so he is not a threat to the other boys.

 

Once you have ironed out things with the parents then you can do the Den rules with all of the boys. You should understand though, that over & above rules, parents, and meds, this boy will probably always be a struggle and you should be prepared for that. He will take extra time, effort, and patience on your part. If you are not ready for that you should let the family know now.

[EagleInKY 14]

Some good advice here. I strongly encourage the 1-on-1 visit with the parents. Take another leader with you. Don't make it sound like you're teaming up. Tell them you want to work with them, but you have to protect the safety of all of the boys. Also, if they can give you advice on how to best deal with him, you will try to make adjustments to your style and to the meetings that may have a positive influence on him.

 

Second, reiterate that they must stay with him as a Tiger parent. But, there is no reason why you can't insist on their presence ongoing. We have a second year boy scout who's mom or dad is present at nearly every meeting and event. They do this because they know he is more likely to behave if they are nearby. Note that they are often not in the same room with him, but the fact that they are in the building has a calming effect sometimes.

 

The rules and consequences is a great tool. We used it throughout cub scouts. we also used the behavior candle. We lit it at the beginning of the meeting. When someone broke a rule, the candle went out. When the candle burned all the way down, we gave them a reward (usually a pizza party).

[fotoscout 15]

You say one thing that concerns me..the boy is Reportedly diagnosed. If you havent already, you need to have a conversation with the parents. Be sure to have your CC, CM or another leader with you when this discussion takes place.

 

You have a responsibility to all the boys in your den. Use the problem childs parents to promote the behavior you want. Be CLEAR with the parent and child about what types of behavior will not be tolerated. Make the parent be the policeman, you simply dont have time to conduct your meeting and be this boys policeman. Make it clear that the parent will determine the outcome!!!!!!!!!!!!! The parent needs to be a very close one on one with the boy. This parent cannot entertain himself (or herself) with the other parents while you are working with the boys. This parent must be involved with the child. At this age it's about the parent, not the child. Unfortunately it's the child who will suffer.

 

Stand your ground and if necessary, send the boy home. With a big den, you have little or no time to deal with one high energy kid. If the parent is committed to the boy being in Scouting than the parent will have to help earn that right. You are already seeing the negative fallout from this kind of behavior. It is not fair to the other boys who are entitled to have this be a positive experience.

 

One of the recommendations that often come from health care professionals is to keep ADD/ADHD children in structured activities like Scouting. Unfortunately, most of us dont have the training to deal with these kids, and the parents often wont deal with these kids. If this boy is hitting, kicking and tackling then you have a real problem on your hands. Unwanted touching, especially aggressive acts like hitting and kicking have a negative affect on the other boys self-esteem. You cannot let that happen!

 

I am not advocating throwing the baby out with the bath water! But you do have the self esteem of the other boys to think about.

 

All other things aside, AD/ADHD is not the only reason that little boys hit, kick and tackle. Yes, the boy has a problem, but don't be too quick to label him. It may be a "child rearing" problem, or it may be a problem well beyond AD/ADHD

 

You may, or may not, have a strong leader personality. You may, or may not be a take charge kind of person. As the new Tiger Den Leader you have to set the tone for your meetings and the program that you will run in the coming years. Dont be afraid to do the right thing and have this very difficult conversation with the parent(s). The other parents expect you to do it! The other parents expect CS meetings that are free of aggression, and overflowing with positive behaviors.

 

[Eagledad 2780]

Happy Scouting All

 

Everyone is giving great advice. I only want to add one quiet unassuming demand that works quite well for both the parents and their son in this age group;

 

"Please go sit with your parents the rest of the meeting".

 

Everyone gets the point and the behavoir will change after the first couple of incidents if you hold your ground.

 

Barry

 

[OzarksOsage 10]

Thanks to everyone for the advice and support. A dialog has begun with the parents, and it looks like we'll be able to get the situation resolved, or at least under control. The Tiger has been looking forward to Scouting "for as long as he can remember" and I don't want him pushed out, just as I don't want his behavior to push the well-behaved Scouts out, either. And, having the boys develop their own den rules is an excellent idea, which we will most definately do.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

 

[kenk 11]

Since no one else has mentioned it, I will ...

 

A Tiger Cub den of 11 boys is simply too big. It might help if you break the den up onto two dens - one with 5 boys and another with 6. A den with 11 boys of that age has got to be pure chaos.

 

My Webelos 1 den has dropped from 8 to 6 boys over the years (with a few added and others leaving) and I find that smaller size so wonderful to deal with.

 

If the counts of each drop later, they two can always be recombined as needed.

[Twocubdad 665]

Good point, kenk.

 

Hitting another Scout -- regardless of the underlying reason or cause -- is a two-strike offense at most. You have an obligation to the other boys in the den. Going the extra mile to keep the ADHD boy in the den is of no benefit if others drop out because they are tired of getting hit. Loud, unruly, disruptive -- those you can work with. Hitting gets you sent home.

 

I would think long and hard before getting involved in how the parents want to deal with the child. As Scouters we are trained that certain things are the exclusive domain of the boys' parents -- questions of religion, sexuality, punishment, etc. Health issues are certainly included in the list. Deal with the boy's behavior at den meetings. Let the parents take it from there