Old first class backpacking requirement

[neil_b 10]

I have an old 1970 Scoutmaster Handbook which lists requirements for ranks. I thought it was very interesting that for First Class the Scout was required to go on a backpacking trip where they would pack in at least 1 1/2 miles carrying all the equipment and food they needed, tent camp over night, and then pack back out at least another 1 1/2 miles.

 

Evidently, in 1972 the program was revised drastically to make it possible for urban kids to advance without doing any camping at all. As some would say, they took the "outing" out of "scouting". Years later Green Bar Bill came out of retirement to re-write the handbook again and there was a return to a program more similar to pre-1972. However, today's first class requirements still lack the backpacking requirement.

 

When I crossed over with my son into a troop several years go I was surprised to learn that they seldom went hiking and nobody could recall the last time they'd been backpacking. The new parents wanted to know why that was and were told "we're more of a car camping troop." Evidently with the rank requirement for backpacking removed, there's little incentive to do something that takes more planning and is a lot more physical.

 

As a side note, we had some people in our troop working on the hiking merit badge a few years ago, and they went on some "urban hikes" where they covered the distance required but weren't in the wilderness. Personally, I don't consider walking around in the city to be the same as "hiking". When people walk around the neighborhood they don't say they are "hiking", they say they are going for a walk. Maybe that's just me.

 

Anyway, does anybody out there think it would be good to put backpacking back into the first class rank requirements? Anybody think it would be a terrible idea? Anybody remember when it was a requirement?

[sbemis1 14]

One of the other ASMs pointed out to me the other night that second class no longer requires lighting a fire nor a lightweight stove; although building a fire and setting up the stove are.

[neil_b 10]

I did not notice that, sbemis1. Evidently, boys can also now learn knife, axe and saw without being on a camp out at the time.

 

The frequent changes can be annoying. I sometimes wish we could go back to the 1911 Handbook and/or B-P's Scouting for Boys.

[FScouter 24]

If a parent wants to know "why" a unit is a "car-camp" troop, the reason is not what BSA did or did not do 40 years ago. The answer lies with the current Scoutmaster and the troop committee. If a unit chooses to not hike or backpack, the choice is local. You know, like what Pogo said.

[Eagle69 46]

Hiking is hiking, be it in the city or out in the country. It may be called different things by different people.

 

I got my Eagle in 69 and came back into the program as an adult in 77 which was the "Urban Scout" era when you could get Eagle without ever camping.

 

As to making Backpacking a requirement, I would say No. There are way too many kids that don't have access to the gear and if it was required would try it with a big duffel bag and be miserable and might quit.

 

Whether a troop backpacks or not depends to some degree on its leaders. If the leaders are into it and can guide the boys into trying it there is a better chance than if they aren't.

 

I ran a backpacking troop for over 10 years and it really teaches a scout how to get along with minimum gear and take care of himself, but as we got kids and parents in who weren't interested, weren't physically able, etc. we basically stopped.

 

It's not something that should be forced on the group. When I went through WB it was a backpacking course and I did it with a borrowed pack, a cotton bat sleeping bag, etc. Years later when I had acquired all of my backpack gear I couldn't help but think how much more fun the course would have been had I had the gear then that I did now.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

I'm all in favor of backpacking and such ---- I've done about 3,000 miles of that total over a lot of trip I'd think.

 

But I don't consider backpacking essential for Boy Scouts. Camping is essential --- it's where boys learn that actions have consequences and where Patrols have both form and essential functions.

 

Very likely backpacking should be encouraged and done more than it is, especially in areas like mine where there are a LOT of great backpacking experiences available.

 

 

[BadenP 93]

neil

 

I agree that since the disasterous urban boy scout program of the 1970's we have never gotten back to the primarily outdoor oriented program of before. It seems each year another outdoor rank requirement falls to the wayside never to be seen again, and the boy scout program continues to slip further down a very deep slope. Backpacking is an essential scout skill, especially for 1st Class, and a 1 1/2 hike in and out is a very doable goal. As good old Kudu loves to point out if we keep heading the way we are with the boy scout program pretty soon the name will have to be changed to the "Cupcake Scouts of America". Soon I hope that the powers that be at National will realize the value of these scoutcraft skills and reincorporate back into the program.

 

Still, there are some very good troops out there with a strong outdoor program but they seem to be getting fewer and fewer each year.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

>

 

 

 

Maybe Kudu will comment on this. He might have an opinion.

 

 

 

 

[BrentAllen 10]

neil B,

Do any of the boys in the Troop make Eagle? If so, they had to earn Camping, which does require at least a little more than car camping. Does the Troop ever send a Crew to Philmont?

 

My guess is the program was softened up to keep boys advancing, keep boys in Scouting and keep the registration dollars flowing.

 

We have a few boys that say they don't like backpacking. Once they get a little bigger and the pack is a smaller % of their body weight, they enjoy it a little more. For the adventure-seekers, backpacking is high on their list. We have some who are interested in ultralight backpacking, and they really enjoy the challenge of lightening their load.

 

I say bring it back, but make it longer. 1 1/2 miles isn't much of a trip.

[KC9DDI 11]

I have to wonder what the motivation for this really is. Various pet theories have been brought up on these forums, generally without much substance. But has National ever really stated what their goals are here, and why they've chosen to get there via this route?

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

While I backpack slowly well...like a turtle...I think it is too be included in a program if it all possible. Yes some boys will hate it but then some boys will not like aquatics and some boys will hate camping. It is still character building and an important skill. The first time a young scout does 10 miles he knows he could in an emergency walk a distance if he needs to. I always think of the New Yorkers on 9/11 who had to walk 10 or 15 miles home because the buses and trains were shut down. Carrying all your stuff on your back quickly teaches you that you do not as much stuff as you think. Plop camping does not achieve any of that.

 

All that said I am eternally grateful the Good Lord made Florida flat.

[neil_b 10]

I know what the motivation was for the big changes made in the 1970's. Newspapers of the time reported that the changes were "... reflecting a new awareness of the problems of urban life.... A scout living in an urban ghetto, for example, will be able to become a first class scout without necessarily mastering camping..." (http://tinyurl.com/5rl7uyv)

 

Regarding the newest Second Class requirements changes, I don't know. However, I never understood why you had to wait for a camp out to teach pocket knife safety.

 

Brent has a good point about the camping merit badge, but it has a lot of options. A boy could certainly get through that without ever backpacking. BTW, the backpacking option on the camping merit badge only requires 4 miles total which isn't that much more than the old First Class requirement.

 

In recent years our troop has introduced more variety, including some backpacking, and we've always gone to council summer camps, so it's not as if we were ever 100% car camping.

 

The comment by Eagle69 about backpacking at WB without proper gear makes me think maybe a lot of people don't understand the need for backpacking-specific gear until they go through it their first time. It would be better to learn that lesson on a shorter trip than on a long trek.

 

A shorter trip would also help build up confidence for the boys who might someday be interested in longer trips.

 

[Beavah 205]

I would say No. There are way too many kids that don't have access to the gear and if it was required would try it with a big duffel bag and be miserable and might quit

 

Why are we always so all-fired worried that if we ask boys to do anything hard they will quit? Can't expect 'em to be accountable for their behavior. Can't expect 'em to remember what they "learned" last week. Can't expect 'em to swim in a strong manner. Can't expect 'em to go 1.5 miles with a pack on in a day.

 

Really?

 

I think da reason most kids quit is that their soccer coach expects 'em to run a few miles a day, do suicide sprints, and learn good ball handling that they can use the following week during the game. They feel like what they're doin' is a worthy challenge. It's hard. It's cool. It feels like an accomplishment.

 

In Boy Scouting, they're not expected to be challenged. They're just supposed to do chores. Haul the tent out of the trailer. Clean da dishes.

 

We should expecting a First Class scout to be able to plan and execute a solo 15 mile backpack trek that includes at least 5 miles of off-trail hiking and has to be done in bad weather. And if we can't get there because the kids or adults aren't physically fit, well, then that's what Tenderfoot fitness requirements are for, eh? Shouldn't be "show improvement". Should be "show a level of fitness that allows you to keep up with your patrol peers on a challenging outdoor activity."

 

Beavah

[neil_b 10]

I like where you're headed on this, Beavah.

 

B-P called Scouting a "game with a purpose", and every game has certain equipment requirements.

 

With sports teams they don't make everything optional. If you want to be on the team, you are going to buy the uniform, you are going to pay the league fee and tournament fees, and additional fees for equipment and facilities. So, you write the coach a check for whatever he tells you to, because he's not giving you the option. Then you still go out and buy your personal gear, because you need those to play.

 

You know what? Even Chicago inner city kids with little money somehow find the money to buy a basketball and they get teams together and somehow raise the funds to travel for tournaments. With most kids, it's not about money, it's just a matter of priorities and how much they want it.

 

When boys join the troop make it clear to the parents that the boy needs a backpack. Tell the parents that backpacking meets a requirement towards an Eagle-required merit badge. That's not forcing the kid to go backpacking. It's just setting an equipment standard with the parents. Once a boy owns one, he will probably want the opportunity to use it. Maybe he will bring it to all the camp outs.

[desertrat77 1144]

That's true--the kids want a challenge.

 

The requirements, as determined by National, are important indicators of what the "corporate" part of the organization believe. And the organization will recruit like-minded individuals.

 

As a scout in the '70s, we still backpacked and went outdoors regularly. The troop leadership set the tone. But that was only one troop. Nationally, the dumbed-down, lackluster, ho-hum program put forth by National in the '70s was a disaster in every sense of the word.

 

Not much benefit if a troop here and there succeeds, and the BSA as a whole suffers from portraying a "cupcake" image...I think Kudu is right on the money when he articulates that viewpoint. Sedentary programs attract sedentary leaders and kids alike. Adventure minded folks will find something else to do.

 

I think the adventure angle is the most important selling point the BSA has to offer...it not only stands the test of time and generational differences, it is also a unique aspect that few other organizations utilize. Soccer, science projects, and all that, are done by other organizations, and done quite well.