troop meetings . . . does your troop wear full uniforms?

[Horizon 97]

Full Field (aka Class A to the old Army guys) to all Troop Meetings. Most of my Scouts only own one shirt. 75% have the pants - they are rewarded for that. Those that don't have the pants are not humiliated in any way. We simply recognize those that go all the way on this particular method.

 

Activity (Troop T Shirt or Polo Shirt) for quartermaster days or other activities involving grease, etc. We do a cookout for the CO, and splattering grease is not the best thing for a formal shirt.

 

Full Field for going to and from campouts. Activity shirt on campouts.

 

We don't have a summer vs. winter switch.

[perdidochas 658]

Horizon describes my boy's troop as well. As a parent, I was very impressed at Family Night at Summer camp, because our boys were in uniform (at least the centennial shirt, with subdued shorts). I think it's a good practice. I was apathetic towards the uniform in my early time as a Cub leader, but after 5 yrs of it, I see the importance of it.

[Beavah 205]

I too have never known anyone who quit Scouting b/c of the uniform.

 

Yah, I think what E61 was tryin' to say is that while no boys quit scouting because of da uniform, there are boys who never join because of the uniform. I know I've met quite a few, even as adults, who confess that they like the outdoors and the stuff scouts did, or who had friends in scouts, but never joined themselves. I'm willing to bet that if yeh ask boys in your troop, they'll tell you they have friends like that... guys who would love to do scout stuff, but don't want to do it being associated with da uniform and what they perceive to be the (adult) BSA. Yah, sure, we might fault 'em for that, but they're kids. Unless we get 'em into scouting, we can't change their minds.

 

I personally like to see the lads in uniform, and appreciate it when the boys wear a good-lookin' uniform when it's appropriate in public. I confess, though, that I like strong youth leadership and outdoors programs better, and too often da "full uniform at meetings" units are weaker in those areas. So while yeh won't find a lad who quit scouting because of the uniform, yeh do see some boys who quit scouting because of the boring adult-run program that sometimes comes with an over-emphasis on uniforming. I think that's what Lisabob is tryin' to say.

 

So it's like anything. Campin' 300 feet away from every other patrol no matter what might be da perfect implementation of Patrol Method, and wearin' full Class A's at da outdoor meeting in mid-July might be da perfect implementation of Uniform Method. But I reckon there's a lot of great scoutin' that goes on without being perfect.

 

The same reasons for not wearing a uniform to a troop meeting can be made for not wearing a uniform to an Eagle Court of Honor.

 

Because da ECOH is outdoors, fun, active, and service-oriented, with people hanging out in their patrols and working hard and playing hard? Yeh must have some fun ECOHs! Either that, or some really dull meetings.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Mike F 10]

When the troop I serve was formed, they established blue jeans as the troop's uniform pants. (Full-length and in good repair.) It took some getting used to at first. In the sense that "uniform" means "the same", at least within the troop, it is a success. It is very rare to see a scout out of uniform. The pants may not be green with BSA label, but they work. I thought about trying to work them towards official pants for Eagle Courts of Honor, etc., but there are more important things to worry about.

[Jeffrey H 25]

My Troop encourages full uniforming but does not enforce it. At a minimum, we require uniform shirt and belt at Troop meetings and usually we don't have any problems. Our focus is providing a quality outdoor program, advancement opportunites, and community service projects. We don't make an issue of it when a Scout shows up out of uniform occassionally. We stress the importance of uniforming, but we don't fight unnecessary battles over uniforming that take away from more important issues within our Troop. If the Scout does not have uniform pants, then we ask that they wear jeans to provide some measure of uniformity.

 

My statements will make the "uniform police" cringe, but please save your arguments for another time. I know the arguments for full uniforming and agree with them, but we don't live in a perfect world, do we?

 

By the way, our Troop is growing.

[Engineer61 19]

Meetings are full Class A's.

 

Usually a mad scramble to find all the pieces in the ten minutes after homework and dinner is done and the time to leave for the meeting.

[Engineer61 19]

SMT said...

 

"Sorry Lisabob & Engineer61, I just don't buy the "uniform is a deterrent" argument. I have yet to find a Scout who quits because of the uniform. "

 

Funny, I did not say that...what I said was...

 

"Actually, if you asked boys who did *not* join scouts why the were not interested, you'd probably find the majority would say that they did not want to wear the uniform. "

 

A different statement entirely.

[FScouter 24]

"My statements will make the "uniform police" cringe, but please save your arguments for another time. I know the arguments for full uniforming and agree with them, but we don't live in a perfect world, do we?"

 

Feeling a little guilty? Self-conscious?

[sherminator505 10]

I have encouraged full uniforming in each of the troops I have worked with. That said, the troop I was a Scout in was considerably more lax. The acceptable "uniform" was the Scout shirt, troop neckerchief, and official web belt.

 

This was looked down upon by a certain troop in town who had five Scouts and loads of brand-new equipment, but as we had more spirit and consistently cleaned their clocks at camporees, we accepted this as a backhanded compliment.

[sherminator505 10]

"We don't have a summer vs. winter switch."

 

In southern California, you probably don't need one. lol

[Lisabob 13]

I think the "shirts only" or "waist up" uniform approaches are relics of the bad old de la Renta scout pants/hot pants (I mean, shorts) from the 90s.

 

Ironically, the current scout pants seem to be a lot more popular with many boys, and it is the scout shirts that draw objection.

 

But...that's not so much the point of this thread. I think we probably all agree that there are times when full uniform (or as full as possible) is highly desirable. The questions are, why should routine weekly troop meetings be that time, and does having a "full uniform" weekly meeting expectation that includes a dress-up shirt (and decorative scarf thingy that serves no active purpose) send a message to many that the weekly meetings are not terribly active, fun, boy-oriented experiences?

 

We may differ on that last point. Again, I agree that uniforms serve a number of useful purposes and that boys can benefit from learning to wear one properly and with pride. But I don't see why they need 600 hours of practice doing so, either, especially if it comes at the cost of other objectives.

 

[LIBob 10]

I am very pleased with the responses.

 

For my own part, I keeping my piece and filing this away under "ya gotta pick your battles," especialy since the relaxed dress code was adopted at the behest of the PLC.

 

Still I'd like to see the scout shirts worn to troop meetings and more of an effort made to have the uniform worn more often.

(At tonight's troop meeting several scouts showed up in swimming trunks and flip-flops, but because they wore the troop t-shirt they were "in uniform.")

[desertrat77 1144]

Lisa, while uniforming is one objective of many in scouting, I don't view it as a checklist item ("okay, done, let's do something else") Actually, it's something that traditionally runs concurrent with the other objectives, that is, you experience the other objectives of scouting while wearing the uniform.

 

The fact that folks don't want to wear it reflects poorly on National's ability to field a uniform that is functional and desireable.

 

A good example is that "decorative neck thing" aka, the neckerchief. Many years ago, this was a full square, 32 inches by 32 inches, if memory serves. Fold it into a triangle, put a slide on it, and you are done. It was made of substantial material and perfect for first aid, bandana, hot pot grabber, something to sit on, and many other uses.

 

However, over time, folks got more interested in how neat you could roll it up, etc., a classic case of form over function. So now we have neckerchiefs that are useless for any reason, including wear with the uniform.

 

Again, a classic, functional, iconic uniform issue that has been overcome by poor adherence to tradition.

 

Uniforming is not a burden, IF there are two elements: leadership that challenges and inspires, and having a uniform available that folks WANT to wear.

[Lisabob 13]

I can certainly agree on that last point, desert.

 

If anybody thinks I've gone too far in the opposite direction, blame it on the umpteen glittery-gold-and-silver "special jambo" patches that I've been sewing on to the boy's shirts, so that his shirt will be "exactly like" the other 35,000 fellows at jambo - until, of course, he takes it off so he can actually do stuff without worrying about damaging all the special patches on the shirt. Sheesh!

[Bando 21]

What gets me about uniforming, and this is only somewhat applicable to this thread, is how Nationals have gone about promoting full uniforming in their publications and promotional materials.

 

Look closely at most anything that comes out of Irving. See all those people in uniforms? What don't they have about 99% of the time?

 

I stand up for the neckerchief because, to me, it's an integral part of the uniform. You think Boy Scout, you think neckerchief. I can deal (sort of) with the obliteration of the knee socks, but I really wonder why Nationals has decided to so obviously de-emphasize the neckerchief. I know, I know, it's "optional," but why not at least present it instead of the open-collar shirt nearly every time? And we wonder why the neckerchief seems to be falling by the wayside...

 

(Isn't it obvious I grew up in a troop where head-to-toe complete uniform was required at every troop meeting? )