How strict are you with the uniforms

[Grayfeathers 10]

I need your input. I've been dealing with this for some time and I want to know if I'm just being too strict. I have been a scoutmaster of a troop for nearly five years now. The previous scoutmaster was, in my opinion, way to lax with the uniform code. I feel that when wearing the uniform, you should respect it by wearing all of the uniform not just the class A. I have scouts that just want to wear the class A and jeans or worse, gym shorts.

 

We just got back from summer camp and there was a troop there that were all dressed the same. They had the same scout shorts, class b, the same neckerchief, same hat, and even the same scout socks. I made sure that I pointed this troop out to my guys and the response was not a good one. I understand that some of these boys don't have the money to buy new pants everytime they grow out of their current clothes but I think they should be wearing the full uniform not just their class A. I want my troop to look like the troop that I saw at summer camp. Am I asking too much??

[Hal_Crawford 15]

Welcome to the campfire.

 

What does your troop want? It is hopefully a boy led troop; what do the youth leaders want? I would suggest bringing this to the PLC and encourage them to decide on a uniform policy. Give them the reasons why you think it is important and see what they do. If they establish the policy, the scouts may actually follow it.

 

Our unit has the same issues and I consider it a small victory that the Patrol Leaders insist that the scouts tuck their uniform shirts into their non-uniform gym shorts. We win some and we lose some but are chances are better if the scouts feel that they are calling the scouts.

 

Hal

 

 

 

[CA_Scouter 11]

What Hal said.

 

Similar situation with us.. the adults try to set the example but we have limited success with the scouts. Several wear their Class A shirts all the time, some only part of the time. Nobody in the troop ( aside from myself and asm's ) own the shorts or pants.

 

We do a uni inspection once a month and give some extra privs to the winning patrol but that's as strict as we get.

 

All the guys show up in uniform for all COH's though, no problem there... go figure.

 

IMHO, I got bigger fish to fry...

 

 

 

 

 

[IM_Kathy 32]

all the troops in the area do the same as you mentioned - class A shirt and neckerchief... then were what ever they want for pants/shorts. to me personally I would like to see them wear full class A's, but that's not going to happen - money is a big reason because shirts you can buy big and grow into them and get buy with 1 or 2 shirts for all your years in scouts, but when you're talking about boys of that age you sometimes have to buy pants a few times a year until they finally quit growing. My son does have 1 pair of switchbacks, but otherwise is green pants are walmart ones and he wears one of those for court of honors or when representing scouts in public because I tell him that is the way it should be even if none of the other boys do.

[scoutldr 732]

Uniform Police here. We've discussed this ad nauseam on this forum in the uniform section. The BSA does not use the terms "Class A" and "Class B". Those are military terms. Even in the Army, when the uniform of the day is "Class A", that doesn't mean "just wear the shirt and whatever pants or shorts you want with it"...that would look pretty ridiculous, no? In my opinion, if your Troop is not going to wear the "Official Uniform" (including all its parts), then they are NOT in uniform and it doesn't matter "how strict" you are. You're either in proper uniform...or not. The best thing to do is "lead by example" and try to get your youth leaders to do the same. Cost is a cop=out. Parents don't want to buy pants, but won't think twice about dropping $50 for a video game or a trip to the movies. THere are ways around that...get a parent to start a uniform closet...cruise the yard sales, thrift stores, eBay and Craigslist. Have unit fundraisers so scouts can earn money for uniforms. WHen scouts outgrow the uniforms, recycle them to younger scouts. Have regular uniform inspections and reward expected behaviour. If scouts don't think it's expected, you'll never get there.

[Lisabob 13]

That troop you saw at summer camp could have been my son's troop. They are a "full uniform" troop, down to the socks and up to the berets. We get boys from all sorts of cub packs, most of whom have a "shirts only" expectation, and many of the boys individually complain of the dork factor or "gayness" of the uniform (mainly the shirts, which makes me laugh because that's the one part most units expect!). But the troop culture is such that the new guys just know that when they join this troop, they will be wearing the full uniform. Our older guys do set that example (and, to be honest, pressured the younger guys to conform).

 

Getting your troop culture to reflect that is difficult if you have no buy in from any of your boys. To start to change that, you need at least one core group who are willing to buck the existing culture. That might be your older guys like your SPL & his leadership group. Or it might be a group of younger guys who have a strong bond and want to sort of set themselves apart/challenge the rest of the troop.

 

You could also have an "honor patrol" contest where uniforming is one of the criteria. But again, this is going to require some buy in from at least some of the boys in order to make any difference.

 

End of the day - I support uniforming. But it is only one of the eight methods of scouting and, in my eyes, not necessarily the method with the most pay back. I guess you have to ask how your troop is doing with the other methods, and in the big picture, to what extent is the uniforming method a priority for the troop right now?

 

 

[Kahuna 172]

Never worried much about other troops, but in my own, it was full uniform or none, no exceptions. We had a boy led troop, but the leaders "led" the boys into making the right decision. I don't think money is much of an issue in most places and certainly there are uniform parts available used everywhere.

[Eagle92 110]

My troop also was stricter in uniforming than the posters's troop. Now we did allow black socks with the pants only for our weekly troop inspections, and we also allowed any green pants or shorts for out weekly inspections. We also had a uniform box to help out as well.

 

As someone else mentioned, you have to have that uniforming culture in a unit, and have the youth buy into it and enforce the rules. It was expecetd that we wore the uniform of the season: field uniform with necker, troop woggle and troop totem october -may, activity uniform of any troop or scout t-shirt with scout shorts/pants, belts socks, etc. And we wore the feild uniforms to and from campouts. No uniform, no trip EXCEPT the new guys of course.

 

To show how we were, we had bandsmen, football players, baseball players, etc comign directly from practices and games with their unifomr on a hanger to change into once they arrived at meetings.

[gsdad 59]

My childhood troop had a strict uniform policy. We were expected to wear full "Class A" uniform to Troop meetings, when departing for a camping trip, dinner at summer camp, and other functions like Scout shows, Troop Retreat etc.. If a Scout showed up without it, he went home. Some guys grumbled because they thought it to be dorky, but that didn't last long.

[SR540Beaver 116]

Our troop is like Lisa's. Full uniform is just a part of our troop culture. Sure we have boys that are resistant. I don't know how many guys I'll see struggling into a shirt walking across the parking lot or unbuttoning it on the way out the door. But they are in uniform at the meeting. Our adults wear the uniform and the PLC does too. We usually take in about 20 new scouts a year. We don't "require" them to have a full uniform when they crossover, but we do tell them they need to work on becoming fully uniformed as soon as possible because we are a fully uniformed troop. We've been around for 45 years and are one of the largest troops in the council. We are boy led and because the culture has been full uniform forever, it just isn't questioned or complained about.

[BadenP 93]

I think most of you uniform police forget that in the early decades of scouting that a full uniform was a rarity due to the tough economic times, but it didn't seem to bother Baden Powell, Dan Beard, or Ernest Seton, they were all concerned for the welfare of the boys over ANYTHING else. I would rather have a boy in my troop wear whatever pieces of a uniform he owned then no uniform.

 

One boy in my troop when I was a SM came from an extremely poor family and the only uniform he had was his dads old green uniform shirt and campaign hat, which by the way were always crystal clean and pressed. That kid was so proud and the other boys never teased him about it. Every badge he earned he sewed himself on that shirt, but after a year and a half he had earned enough to buy the correct shirt and pants. At the COH where he was presented his 1st class badge he came in wearing his new uniform smiling and when he was presented his badge with his parents up there with him he reached over and picked up that old olive green shirt with all his patchs sewn on and presented it to his mom and dad saying that it was because of their support that he had enjoyed scouting so much.

 

So to all you uniform police out there quote all the uniform policies you want because when it comes to what scouting is truly all about they don't mean a thing, so get over it already.

[BrentAllen 10]

Ours is a correctly uniformed Troop. It has become part of our culture, and the boys enforce it - I don't have to say a thing at meetings. When prospective Scouts visit, I point out to them and their parents what is expected in uniforming. To me, it is just showing proper respect to wear the uniform properly. It is part of my vision for the Troop, as well. I'm from the old school that believes it is hard for the boys to act like a Troop if they don't look like a Troop.

 

We have adopted the BSA long-sleeve Action shirt as part of our Class B uniform (scoutldr, this is a lost cause - summer camp & NYLT staff continue to use the terms). We have our own tan Troop t-shirt (wicking 100% polyester, no less) as well. At Summer Camp last week, the other adult leaders wanted to know how we got the boys to "look like a Troop" by wearing the same shirts, Scouts pants, etc,... I made an appeal to the parents to buy the shirts and let them be their son's "camping clothes." Then they would never have to worry about their son messing up some nice shirt or pants they bought for school use. The parents supported me on the issue, and the boys love the pants and shirts. (The other leaders also wanted to know where we got the shirts - at our local Scout Shop)

 

Does Troop uniforming help in other areas? I believe it does. All of our first-year Scouts took Swimming MB at Summer Camp. I went down to the water front on Thursday to take pictures of the boys going through the survival skills - inflating shirts, pants,... After they had all completed the requirements, the counselors asked me if I was the SM. I said I was, not sure what was coming next. They said they wanted to thank me and let me know this was the first group that had all come to class as required, each with their own shirt and pants. Proper uniforming also helps a lot with esprit de corps, which I think is missing in many units today.

[desertrat77 1144]

I support full uniforms.

 

But I do not support the BSA uniform police.

 

The BSA uniform is a vital part of the scouting program. But it is a means to the end, not the end.

 

BadenP's example of the young man with the old shirt and campaign hat is superb.

 

Simply put, the scout did his best...isn't that what we are trying to teach?

 

Camping, rocking climbing, uniforms, Eagle Scout attainment, etc., are not the prime objectives of the scouting movement.

 

Is the scout doing his best? If so, let's move on. If not, mentorship and setting the example will be more than enough to get the majority of scouts (and adults) going in the right direction. The scouts who are able but unwilling to conform will take the appropriate mark down on their scout spirit.

 

What do you want the scouts to remember about their SM 20 years from now? Encouraged high uniform standards and set the example him/herself? Or that he/she endlessly nit picked uniforms?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[John-in-KC 311]

I was loud and long here about how much I despised the DLR uniform.

 

The new uniform is better quality, fit, and finish.

 

I'd work with the PLC to encourage them to move along towards full uniforming. It will take time, but it can be done.

 

That said, A Scout is Thrifty. In these economic times, look at each Scout as a person. If Billy is out lawnmowing for an after-school job, and the money goes into the family grocery jar, help him. OTOH, if Bobby has a paper route and an X-box, encourage him to put money to Scouting and his uniform.

 

[Crew21_Adv 25]

Grayfeathers,

 

Greetings!

 

I immediately had my own opinion, then as I read further thru the thread. I shared the same or similar thoughts with most of our fellow Scouters who responded. I wouldn't compare what the policy of the previous Scoutmaster from five years ago, I would expect the majority of the boys would not remember him, maybe only the 17 y/o.

 

I certainly enjoy seeing a fully uniformed troop. I to will get a jealous streak if I see a troop hiking and looking like a BSA troop. One Summer that I staffed as a commissioner, I saw a troop that would sing during each assembly. Their own original songs, and they sounded like an actual choir. But getting your troop in uniform. I agree with our fellow forum members; plus an addition. You need to get the "buy in" from the PLC. But even more, you need to get a "buy in" from their parents. The PLC may concur, it is a great idea to look like a team and be fully uniformed. But then the committee and PLC will need to get parents to go to the local Scout council office and purchase BSA slacks and shorts.

 

Parents can be persuaded to purchase shirts and handbooks, that is the easy part. But telling a parent to go purchase a set of slacks or shorts. Some will, and some other parents will just flat refuse.

 

The other funny thing is trying to tell a parent that a Scout may go thru at least two sets of shirts and two sets of slacks between 10.5 and 18 years of age. Some parents absolutely refuse to purchase their 17 y/o Life Scout a new Shirt before their Eagle ceremony. Imagine a 17 y/o 6'2" corn fed (almost an adult) Scout putting on a shirt his mother bought when he was a 9 y/o 3'6' First Year Webelos.

 

The adult leadership seems to have absolute rigid flexibility with being strict on our uniforming policy. It is a minority of Scouts and their parents that constantly violate our troop's uniforming policy. Imagine being an adult leader deciding to have a Scout at an event or calling his parents to pick him up or bring a shirt. (yeah right, figure the odds of a parent bringing a shirt to their Scout at an event) Just a few parents are confused why uniforming is a method and ask why their son has not been signed off for completing requirements if he was not in uniform. But those parents do not debate uniforming with the committee if their son does not have a Board of Review, because he didn't show up in complete uniform.

 

Honestly. Here is how my troop appears. My troop is sorta close on complete uniforming. The first meeting of the month is a full uniform meeting, unless otherwise stated other meetings are Troop T-shirts and shorts. The PLC has agreed, any Scout shirt is acceptable, but "concert", violent or rude T-shirts are unacceptable. Our committee will not do a BOR unless the Scout shows up in full uniform (not half, not mixed, but full uniform). Our troop committee feels the Scouts should be fully uniformed at least a few times on their trail to Eagle.

 

Still, we have one maybe two boys that will show up in "Megadeath" live in concert T-shirts, we remind the parents of the PLC policy to a "yes, he will wear a nice T-shirt next week", its a convenient lie to get out of the parking lot. But those families are the minority.

 

Of course if you go to one of our local camporees, half our boys will be in full uniform, and half will were their Scout shirts with stripped shorts, plaid shorts, and gym shorts.

 

Our COH and Eagle Court of Honors are when the Scouts look their best. At our camporees, they look good loading up the vehicles, but begin to look pretty sad by the campfire or morning assembly. My troop will never seem to achieve a 100 percent uniforming. At least committee, adult leaders and PLC are satisfied with a "close to perfect" uniforming. Hitting somewhere around a 90-95 percent success rate.

 

So back to your question, How strict are you with the uniforms? My PLC is strict, my committee is even more strict. The troop adult leadership maintains rigid flexibility. We will inquire why a Scout is not in uniform, and remind the parents, month after month. But it is up to the PLC to keep their Scouts uniformed.

 

Good Luck!

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv