Uniform- History with a Reason

[rrclark1]

Earlier this spring I was asked to become the chairman for our council's scout museum. It is something that I have embraced and enjoyed. It's also a lot of work! The museum focused on mainly items from our council. We do have collections of jamboree patches, region mugs, etc. But the focus is on our council.

 

Recently we had a "garage sale" to sell duplicate items or items that were not from our council. I came across an old olive short sleeve shirt (with collar) that fit me and my mind went into overdrive. To make a long story short, it has turned into a mission to put an old uniform together with the authentic patches and I'm nearly there.

 

The first thing was to get an old Red & White Strip for the council. That just came in the mail today where I purchased them from http://www.thescoutpatchauction.com The uniform has a spot where there was once a knot. I've been able to find an old olive Eagle Scout knot (I am from the Eagle Class of 88) that will fit nicely there. I have an old American flag that can go on it.

 

I'm an Assistant Scoutmaster for our troop and found an old patch from that time period. It's going to look neat. And the patch even has a flaw in it. The Eagle is missing most of one of it's wings!

 

BUT there are a couple things I wanted to run by everyone and see what they thought.

 

1. I have an old International Scout patch. Back in the old days the uniform usually didn't have it. Should I put it on? I know that these days it's on every uniform (you used to have to earn it). Should it go on the uniform or not?

 

2. Recruiter's Strip - I came across an old recruiter's strip that is from the time period for the uniform. I was a recruiter as a boy and have a strip on my youth uniform (in the 80's it was white background with Red lettering). Should I put the old recruiter strip on the uniform. Or should it not go on there since I'm an adult? Part of me thinks that since I was a recruiter it would be ok. There's also another part of me that thinks it would be great to show that patch off for all to see. But the question is - can adults wear the Recruiter patch?

 

3. The hardest part is coming up with the unit numbers for my troop. I have my father's patches and his unit numbers. Two of the three that I need were in there. And I found the third number I needed from my unit number patches when I was a Cub (these are the thicker, heavier numbers than what we have today) My unit numbers (17) are in a scrapbook. Should I use my father's numbers and mine to finish out the uniform?

 

When this uniform is complete it is going to be used to help promote the council museum. Should I even put the unit numbers on since this is for the council?

 

4. O.A. Flap - ok, here's the real kicker on this. The OA lodge we have today for our council had two other lodges folded into it. I have one of the flaps from one of the lodges that was integrated into the current lodge. Ebay and other websites have pretty high prices going for this lodge ($50 - $175.00) Get this - I bought the flap at an antique store for $5.00 and it's in really good shape! Keeping with the authentic feel of the uniform, do I put that OA Flap on?

 

 

I look at this uniform as a tool to help promote scouting history and the museum. It should spark a lot of conversation. Please let me know your thoughts, suggestions and what you know that will help me to put the best authentic uniform together. Thanks for your time!

[kraut-60]

Hi rrclark1, I would leave the recruiter patch off as it is a patch meant for youth members. The "International" patch? Do you mean the World brotherhood of Scouting patch...the purple one we wear over our left pocket on the current uniform? If it is the same one, then I would also leave it off. An older uniform looks great when correctly badged, but I would advise that less is more when replicating a uniform of the olive-khaki (pre 1980).

 

I am also in possession of several older uniforms that I will badge to reflect my current positions in Scouting (SM an RT Commish). The hard part about older uniforms is getting pants that will fit...seems most of what e-bay has in sizes north of 36" waists go for an amount that would make 1/2 of the car payment...Good Luck and best wishes in getting your uniform done.

[rrclark1]

HI Kraut-60

 

Yes, I was referring to the world brotherhood scouting patch that is purple and goes up over the left pocket.

 

I understand where you're coming from regarding the recruiter strip. It also makes sense that only the boys wear it.

 

The troop numbers and OA flap are the biggest issues for me to figure out right now.

[Gold Winger]

If you're OA, I'd put the historic flap on.

 

I hadn't noticed that the unit numbers had changed. I'll have to look at my old Cub Scout uniform.

 

Don't raid your scrapbook. Unless the current generation of red and white numbers looks just plain wrong, I'd use them. If you want some used digits, post all of the numbers and maybe some of us have them.

[scoutldr]

Great idea! I would make the uniform as "period" as possible. Decide what era you want to replicate, then get an old uniform catalog or uniform inspection sheet of that era and use that as a template. I would use the OA flap of the lodge that existed at that time. The older unit numerals were "fully emroidered", and in a lot of cases, you could go to JC Penney and buy your unit number in one patch (i.e., a "17" vice a "1" and a "7". In my box, I have a "360", a "801",a "440" and a "499", representing the units I was a member of. The newer numerals are white embroidery on a red twill background, similar to current issue.

If it's an adult uniform, I would only have adult insignia on it...

You may want to research when the R/W council strip was implemented...could be you should be looking for the older Community and State strips. As I recall my youth days, I think Council and District scouters wore the Council version and most unit members wore the City/State strips. Could be wrong, tho.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

[Eagle92]

My take on the World Crest, if you would have earned it under the old requirements, i.e. either spent 5 days on a scout function out of the country, or sponsored someone in you home for 5 days, then I would wear it. Otherwise no don't do it.

[Trevorum]

I agree with GW - don't raid your own collection. For authenticity, you'll want the fully embroidered unit numerals. These are fairly easy to find and occasionally pop up on eBay. Or, you can ask the fine folks on Patch-L. Goto http://groups.google.com/group/patch-l

 

[Eagle92]

Also contact other scout musuems as they may have extras that you need.

 

DO NOT RAID PERSONAL COLLECTION!!!!!!!!

[Trevorum]

scoutldr notes, "You may want to research when the R/W council strip was implemented...could be you should be looking for the older Community and State strips. As I recall my youth days, I think Council and District scouters wore the Council version and most unit members wore the City/State strips."

 

This is correct - but varies by council. Full red and white council strips (RWS) were used widely in some councils but only by professionals and council/district folks in other councils.

[BadenP]

Wow since when is a uniform from 1988 considered to be an antique, lol?

 

rr, good luck on your patch quest and the museum.

[Gold Winger]

Baden, he's an Eagle from 88 but he's putting together a pre-80 uniform that's why he mentioned the olive eagle knot.

[rrclark1]

Thanks for all of the replys so far.

 

1. Regarding the international brotherhood patch / world crest, since I didn't "earn" it, it won't go on the uniform.

 

2. The recruiter strip won't go on there as well. I agree with what has been posted that it should only be youth.

 

3. I appreciate the feedback about this and not raiding my father's or my patches. I will try to find the fully embroidered numbers (I have applied to get on Patch-L and awaiting approval. Thanks for letting me know about it Trevorum)

 

4. The OA flap is still up in the air. Those that are interested, the flap is from Pohawk #445 that was folded into Kit-Ke-Hak-0-Kut 97. It just so happens that this is the first flap from the Pohawk lodge. It didn't even have a lodge number on it. It would be way cool to have it on the uniform. I'm still thinking about it.

 

There was some talk about the red and white strip. I'm from the Mid-America Council which has it's headquarters in Omaha, NE. Since I'm the chairman of the museum for the council I've been learning a lot. There were community strips for Omaha at one time. There was the Omaha Council in the mid 20's. In 1929 the Omaha Council was expanded and named the Covered Wagon Council which is remained until 1964. That year Covered Wagon merged with the Southwest Iowa Council to form what is today the Mid-America Council.

 

I bought a Cub Scout uniform a few months ago that has everything on it from the 50's (wolf, bear, lion, Webelos W on the shoulder). The right pocket had a special 2 inch circular Covered Wagon Patch. The only thing missing was the RWS. Treverum made a trade with me (thanks again!!!) So I will complete that Cub uniform.

 

I just purchased 2 Mid-America RWS. One is going to go on the olive Boy Scout Uniform that I'm working on. The other I will hold on to. (The museum has a ton of them). I'm going with the MAC RWS since it fits the time period this uniform is being set up for. Also, the council name hasn't changed, so that will be nice to have that for our identity.

 

A lot of the time I will sew patches on to my son's uniform and to mine. BUT in this case, I'm having a professional do it so nothing is crooked and it looks sharp. (although I've yet to see any of my sons patches fall off!)

 

I do have an old olive hat that can go with the shirt. Pants? Well, not yet. That's something I'll work on. I'm about a 38 w 36 l, so it won't be easy to find.

 

We have a very old scouter in our council and in my district that has a uniform from the 1940's that he wears sometimes and even has the pants to go with it. He's never gained any weight in his life and is short. When he wears the old uniform, it's impressive and quite a site (he didn't receive his Eagle since he went to war in WWII. So they had a big Eagle Court of Honor for him a couple years ago!!) This gentleman is part of the reason for the project I'm working on now.

 

Thanks again for the replies!

[click23]

rrclark1,

 

I have a "1" that I believe is from the early to mid 70's in almost new condition. It is fully embroidered, with vertical stitching on the red background, and it is yours, just pm me with you name and address.

[Kahuna]

Good project and congratulations on your efforts. I just thought I would throw in that my old SM from 1960 recently sent me a picture of him in 2007 wearing his old, wool uniform that I remember him wearing at the time. Still fits perfectly. I can't get into the uniforms I had in the 90's!