AlFansome 10 Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 And... Philmont Training Center Master Track Award - completing the 3rd track allows the wearer to add the PTC device. Link to post Share on other sites
emb021 16 Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 "* Venturing Leadership Award (to show level of awards) I understand that this can be earned on different levels: Council, Regional or National. I also understand that each is refelected by a different color on the medal which is presented, but what device accompanies these levels?" Its not the device that indicates what level, but where its worn on the knot. The ribbons of the 3 levels are different colors: blue- council, region- green, nationa- red. These colors are the background of the knot (and also shown on the certificate). You wear a device (either the venturing pin or sea scout pin, depending on which program you received the award from) in the appropriate color to indicate what level you received it. Me, I've only received the Council VLA, so I wear a venturing pin in the blue area. Another scouter I know, a past council commodore and now member of the National Sea Scout Committee, received all 3 VLAs, and did so as a Sea Scout leader, so he wears 3 Sea Scout pins in the 3 color areas. Link to post Share on other sites
nolesrule 58 Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Can the Crossed Palms of an Honor Medal with Crossed Palms be worn on the square knot? Link to post Share on other sites
AlFansome 10 Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Regarding crossed palms... Never seen anything official anywhere that says it's OK. Never seen anything official that says you can't. http://www.crowl.org/George/Varieties/devices.doc has more info that you need about knot devices. It says that they can't be worn on the knot. Link to post Share on other sites
MVScouter 10 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 I was awarded the Venturing Leadership Award from my Council. What device would distinquish this? Link to post Share on other sites
AlFansome 10 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 This one ... http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&item=940 attach it to the blue portion of your square knot as emb021 describes above. Link to post Share on other sites
Oak Tree 15 Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Ok, here's what we have for devices. Eagle knot - Up to eight total devices Silver Palm(s), Gold Palm(s), Bronze Palm(s) - up to 7 devices representing up to 95 merit badges beyond Eagle (rough limit as the merit badges are changing regularly). Could never wear all three types of devices at once. Distinguished Eagle Eagle Scout NESA Life Membership Award - upgrade of above knot, same devices Award of Merit Venturing device - specifically mentioned in the Insignia Guide Boy Scout device - knot is mentioned, device would fit the pattern of Scouter's Key and Scouter's Training award Varsity device - ditto Scouter's Key Could wear one each of the following (up to the possible 7) Boy Scout device - Scoutmaster's Key Varsity device - Coach's Key Venturing device - Advisor's Key Sea Scout device - Skipper's Key (http://seascout.org/for_leaders/form_sk_key.pdf) Commissioner - Commissioner's Key District Committee - District Committee's Key Cub Scout device - can't be earned any longer, but can be worn if earned prior to 1988 Scouter's Training Award Boy Scout device Varsity device Venturing device - surprisingly, there is no separate Sea Scout training award. I guess Seabadge makes up for it. Commissioner - roundtable commissioner (http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34169-60.pdf) Youth Religious Award: Up to four devices may be worn Cub Scout device - God and Me, Maccabee, etc. Webelos device - God and Family, Parvuli Dei, Faith in God, Light of the World, Aleph, etc. Oddly enough, these do not have consistent years. God and Family is grades 4 and 5 only, while Aleph is grades 3-5. That means that a Bear could earn the Webelos device. Boy Scout device Venturing device - Venturer or older Boy Scout or Varsity Scout. This means you can earn the Venturing device without being a Venturer. As written in the insignia guide, Sea Scouts would have to use the Venturing device. James E West Fellowship Award 1910 Society Founders Circle William Boyce Unit Award - Can wear up to three devices per the award application (http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/04-515.pdf), including one or more of each of the following: Cub Scout - For organizing a pack Boy Scout - For organizing a troop Varsity - For organizing a team Venturing - For organizing a crew Sea Scouting - For organizing a ship. Note that the Sea Scouting device is not specifically listed in the application, and it would technically be correct to wear a Venturing device since a ship is a specialized crew. However, the organizer of a ship would probably want to wear the Sea Scouting device, and it would seem to be correct to do so. Philmont Training Center Master Track Award PTC device - for completing the 3rd track. I could find no official reference that showed any other devices. I found several pictures of the crossed palms on the Honor Medal. This appears to be unofficial, and I did find one council web site that specifically listed it as incorrect. The award form for the Venturing Leadership Award does not mention the device, nor can I find it listed in the Insignia Guide or Venturing manual. Does anyone have an official reference for this practice? One web site stated that the Boy Scouts Relationship Division has approved a Masonic device for wear on the Community Organization Award. I could find no other reference to this, though. I show 15 unique devices, with currently a max of 31 of them available to be currently earned and worn on the 9 different knots. So if you're feeling like weighing down your shirt, have at it. Link to post Share on other sites
emb021 16 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 "The award form for the Venturing Leadership Award does not mention the device, nor can I find it listed in the Insignia Guide or Venturing manual. Does anyone have an official reference for this practice?" There is no official reference for this. I was told by people in the know that this was the reason for the design for the knot. They wanted ONE knot for all 3 awards, and did it this way. And I've seen National-level people wearing the knots (including regional venturing presidents, etc), so this shows that's the correct style. Keep in mind that it sometimes take time for the literature to catch up. The Insignia Guide took awhile before it included Powder Horn, Kodiak, etc. "One web site stated that the Boy Scouts Relationship Division has approved a Masonic device for wear on the Community Organization Award. I could find no other reference to this, though." I find that hard to believe. I was told by someone ON the Relationships Committee that they created the knot with the intention that NOTHING be worn on it. Many people do (I've seen Masons wear the compass/square, DoD people wear a mini DoD pin, I wear my APO LM pin, etc). They wanted it to be treated like the religious knots that nothing be worn on it. If they approved a masonic device, they'd have to approve all the other items people wear to indicate WHICH award they received. Link to post Share on other sites
Oak Tree 15 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Just to be clear, I'm not trying to be the uniform police here. It's more of an academic exercise to see what all is officially possible. I agree it can take awhile for the literature to catch up, but it shouldn't take any time for the application form to catch up. That was created the same time the award was. They could have just included one line in there about wearing the Venturing device on the appropriate color. That said, I'd have no real issue with people wearing the following devices, since they all seem to be in line with the award that's been received: Venturing device on the appropriate color(s) of the Venturing Leadership Award A device on the Community Organization knot indicating which organization presented the award Crossed palms on the Honor Medal knot (hey, if you earned this, more power to you) A Cub Scout device on the religious knot for an award received when you were in 3rd grade (e.g., Aleph) A Varsity or Sea Scout device on the youth religious knot for the God and Life award, if you were actually registered as a Varsity Scout or Sea Scout when you received the award A device on the New Unit Organizer Award for the first unit you organized (according to the application, you're supposed to wear a device for the second one and on, which is contrary to all of the other knots) More than 3 devices on the New Unit Organizer Award if you have organized more than 3 units Link to post Share on other sites
nolesrule 58 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 nm, misunderstood what you were trying to say.(This message has been edited by nolesrule) Link to post Share on other sites
click23 66 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Oak Tree said "surprisingly, there is no separate Sea Scout training award" For just about everything related to Sea Scout you have to look at www.seascout.org Here is the link to the Sea Scout Leader Training Award requirements www.seascout.org/for_leaders/adult_recognition/adult-award.html Link to post Share on other sites
AlFansome 10 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Well, looks like there are some new devices coming... Charles Spitz posted this on the Scouting Community: "There is a new device for Eagle Scouts that has just recently been approved by National, and the program is administered by NESA. Each year, Eagle Scouts can submit their Eagle service project to the local council NESA committee. That committee will select one project as the best in the council, and the Eagle Scout will get a bronze device to wear on his square knot. The councils will submit their selection to NESA. They will choose one per region, and those Eagle scouts will get a gold device, and then select one for the National Award and that Eagle scout will receive a silver device. There are monetary awards that accompany the regional and national awards. Check with your council NESA committee for the information" Link to post Share on other sites
Oak Tree 15 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 click23, you're right. Not sure how I missed the Sea Scout Training award. The link on that page to the progress form, though, goes to the Skipper's Key progress form, so there's no apparent progress form for the training award. And I find the requirements for the training award to be surprisingly light when compared with the other three similar training awards. But nevertheless, it's an honest award and I'll add it to the list. I'll wait to see if I get any more corrections before I repost the entire set. Link to post Share on other sites
emb021 16 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 "so there's no apparent progress form for the training award." Not so. there are progress forms for both the Skipper's Key and the Sea Scouter Training Award. I think they messed up the links. The Scouters Training Award requirements are here: http://www.seascout.org/for_leaders/adult_recognition/adult-award.html the form is missing for some reason. Link to post Share on other sites
click23 66 Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 #49 Unit Leader Award of Merit More info on this award here, http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/512-003_WB.pdf Link to post Share on other sites
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