If the de la Renta Uniform is Outmoded . . .

[Kahuna 172]

Leaving aside all questions of whether we should be uniformed, require uniforms or design our own uniforms, there's a lot of evidence turning up in these threads that the 1980 uniform design is not popular with a lot of boys. Even leaving aside the fact that scout uniforms have been considered dorky by many kids, dating from when I was a scout (and no, I wasn't in that picture with Baden-Powell), what could we do about it?

 

I was totally out of the loop in 1980 when the uniform was totally redesigned. Since there was no internet in those days, the grapevine was somewhat limited.

 

So, how do scouters go about calling for a uniform revision? There is a national uniform committee. Has anybody raised this issue with any of them? The people on the national boards are people who live in our communities, although we don't always know who they are.

 

Do people in your scouting community share these feelings? What happens when you talk about them at roundtables? I doubt that much will change as a result of our discussions here unless we carry them to a different level.

 

What do you think?

[evmori 11]

I'm still befuddled as to why a fashion designer was even used in the 1st place!

 

It would make sense to have more than one uniform option. Dress & field come to mind. The current design is not a bad dress uniform. A more practical uniform should be designed for field use. And should be designed by someone who knows something about field uniforms.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

A blessed Christmas to all

[emb021 16]

"I'm still befuddled as to why a fashion designer was even used in the 1st place!

 

It would make sense to have more than one uniform option. Dress & field come to mind. The current design is not a bad dress uniform. A more practical uniform should be designed for field use. And should be designed by someone who knows something about field uniforms."

 

Have to agree.

 

The color of the uniform I don't see as a problem. What I see as a problem is the design/cut of the uniform and the choice of materials.

 

Scout shorts/pants are badly designed. Thus why people like 'Kudu' put forth the idea of using olive-drab BDUs. I'd like to see better designed and made pants and shorts. I can get better made/design pants/shorts from outdoor stores like Caberas's, Bass Pro Shop, REI, etc. Heck, I can get better ones at The Gap or Old Navy. I can't understand why nothing has been 'fixed' in this area. Heck, Philmont shorts are made by Columbia...

 

(one reason I like being in Venturing. I don't have to use BSA's venturing pants/shorts. I can get other charcoal-gray items and STILL be in uniform).

 

I don't get too worked up about the BSA uniform shirt in the outdoors. I'd rather wear a t-shirt or polo shirt for those times.

 

[rhino 10]

A lot of people are complaining about the De LaRenta uniform, now I am a post 1981 scout so it has been the "official" uniform all of my career but we still had plenty of green collarless uniforms circulating in my day (I had two) and this was the early 90's.

 

The shorts ARE dorky, henece I have never worn them.

 

However what is not functional about the uniform as a field uniform?

 

Before I became a minister I was a park ranger. We had a seperate field and dress uniform. Our fiel uniform was a khaki shirt (admittedly with no epaulets)and green dickies work pants. We had shoulder and qualification badges sewn to the sleeve and a cloth badge sewn to the front. In other words, it was almost identical to a scout uniform.

 

As far as practicality was concerned I often spent 6-7 hours a day doing heavy trail manitenance in this get up. It did not tear easily it wicked out sweat and dried qucikly and lasted much much longer than a T-Shirt ever would.

 

At any point if another ranger needed assistance I could go from maintenance to public contact (where it would need to be visibly obvious that I was a ranger) without changing clothes.

 

Say the scout uniform is outdated if you want (although how a plain khaki shirt becomes outdated I don't know) but it isn't impractical for scouting activities.

[Kahuna 172]

Yeah, but . . .

 

Obviously, you can respond anyway you want, but the question is, if it is outmoded or impractical, what do we do about it?

 

You can buy your own stuff, make up your own uniforms or have BSA uniforms made by a tailor I know in Osan, Korea. Might be cheaper than National Supply.

 

But, how would we go about getting National to change the uniform? They did in 1980. They did about 60 years before that. Anybody up for a challenge?

[OldGreyEagle 5]

I would have Boys Life announce a contest to have its readers design a new boy scout uniform. Give it 4-6 months. Then, have an advisory board glean it down to 5-7 choices which would have "samples" made and then photographs of the "finalist uniforms" being worn by real scouts in real situations would run in Boys Life, with either a toll free number to call or an email address to respond to or something like that and have the boys vote for their favorite (it is a boy run organization right? )

 

The winner, and designer are presented in a couple of months and we have a new uniform, chosen by the youth.

 

Now, a few Caveats, whatever the uniform, there will be objections to it, there will always be claims that aany of the other designs would have been better so controversey will still be present, there will be people who will say, I didnt vote for it, so its not my uniform and elect not to wear it, or do a version of it, then again, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong

[GernBlansten 10]

To me, the current scout uniform is fine for dress activities like COHs, flag ceremonies and parades. But BSA doesn't recognize a utility uniform. Instead of changing the "class A" uniform, lobby BSA to adopt a second uniform specification, intended for troop meetings, outdoor activities and such. A key to the success of this would be to make the new uniform stylish, practical and fairly low key. Low key in the way of no patches or insignia except for a small breast area for BSA and unit designation. That's a uniform that teenage boys might not resist as much as the "dress" uniform.

This approach differs from the unit class B uniforms already used as it will be a consistent BSA approved uniform.

An analogy is the Marine Corps dress uniform is dramatically different from the field one. The field uni would not be appropriate for a military funeral and the dress one would not be appropriate for a beach assault.

[John-in-KC 311]

I've said something very similar to OGE in a different uniform thread here.

 

Some points I'd like to add to his post:

 

- FABRICS should all support use in the outdoors. There is no reason for permanent press cotton poly that retains cold in winter and heat in summer.

 

- The FABRICS should additionally be environmentally friendly. We do practice the Outdoor code around here, do we not? Wool, cotton, and RECYCLED polypro (vice new polypro fibers made direct from petroleum)

 

I do not expect the boys competing in a contest to make material decisions ... though some older Scouts or Venturers who are looking at textile design as a career will almost certainly have some well considered thoughts. I expect industry and Supply Division to make most of the "right fabric for the garment" decisions.

 

- The winner of the contest might not be a single design, but the best elements of several designs. Further, there may be a range of uniform parts available, supporting needs from Maine to California.

 

- I would look at the advisory board being made up mostly of outdoor outfitting experts. The US has LOTS of expertise in outdoor outfitting and clothing design. The folks from the Army's Natick Labs, Columbia, REI, Cabela's ... there is no excuse for not leveraging expertise. I'd also look at older youth (17 yrs, Eagle Scouts) and some young adults (Arrowmen and Venturers from both genders).

 

My thoughts

[Hunt 11]

One suggestion: I think the uniform colors should remain the same. That way people recycling old uniforms could remain relatively uniform during the transition phase.

[Kudu 186]

Kahuna asks:

 

So, how do Scouters go about calling for a uniform revision? There is a national uniform committee. Has anybody raised this issue with any of them? The people on the national boards are people who live in our communities, although we don't always know who they are.

 

I would be happy to explain the process for you, Kahuna!

 

As you know, in the olden days almost everybody knew somebody who knew somebody who knew somebody rumored to be in the national uniform committee. You don't hear about that anymore because the bipartisan Friends of Scouting in Congress (FOSC) was able to add a provision to the Patriot Act which now ties the design process of the Official BSA Uniform to the security interests of the United States.

 

The actual name of this national BSA committee is classified, but it is referred to by informed outsiders as the "secret committee." Despite all the secrecy, the committee is still comprised entirely of Scouting volunteers, just regular guys who live in our own communities in sleeper-cells among us.

 

As you can imagine, the identities of the members are a closely guarded secret. In fact if I, Kudu, were a secret committee member, I could never reveal it. But let's just say that the next time you snap a button on the tiny Merit Badge Cargo Pockets of your Official BSA Scout Pants, or feel constrained by the elastic on your Official BSA Scout Shorts, you would not be completely amiss to say "Thank you, Kudu!"

 

Believe me, I speak from experience when I say that one person can really impact the lives of millions of Scouts and Scouters!

 

Due to national security concerns you can no longer contact the secret committee, so obviously if you want to influence the design of the Uniform you must first become a member of the committee yourself!

 

I am allowed to reveal to you that the selection process is completely relevant to the task at hand. Call it coincidence (hint, hint), but all of the secret committee members were recruited while golfing at the Irving Texas Country Club where the Religious Right walks their BSA lap dogs!

 

Once you visit this pastoral paradise, you will realize how completely groundless are the vicious rumors that BSA Scouting executives spend their entire lives in air-conditioned cubicals under fluorescent lamps, out of touch with the great outdoors!

 

On the famous "back nine," precious contributions are wooed away from other, equally worthy neo-conservative causes by these busy BSA executives while they "field test" the BSA Uniform on the fairways for its suitability for the rugged wilderness conditions found at Camporees held in neatly manicured public parks.

 

To improve your own chances of being selected for the honor of working within the system, consider spending all of your vacations at the Irving Texas County Club, allowing yourself to be "spotted" in a 1980s golfing outfit contemporary with the Official BSA Uniform. These un-loved, garish outfits (un-loved 1980s 100% polyester golf clothes, that is, not the equally un-loved 1980s BSA Uniforms) can still be found in thrift stores here on the mainlands retirement areas! To improve your own chances of this secret signal being noticed, look for golf clothing in fluorescent greens like our Scout Pants; and the bold, unnatural combinations of colors found in the BSA Scout Shirt Christmas tree devices. Red epaulettes, for instance, are always an appropriate homage to our beloved BSA dress designer.

 

The most important detail is a good GOLF HAT! For mine, I created a miniature replica of the Battle of the Alamo, but you will have to come up with your own design. Just think in terms of an over-all fashion statement that screams "TEXAS!" and signals your respect for the fashion tastes of the secret committee members who have labored so hard for so long to keep the current "vintage" Official Boy Scout Uniform from ever being changed.

 

I can't make any guarantees, but if you take the time to understand the logic of the BSA Uniform, by this time next year you too could be working within the system rather than just talking about it!

 

Kudu

 

 

[Kahuna 172]

Kudu,

 

Some of what you posted is obviously tongue in cheek, with enough truth in it that I can recognize the syndromes you are talking about, especially as regards the golf courses around Irving.

 

However, forgive me if I say that the portion regarding the Patriot Act provisions and national security sound a bit fantastic. Do you have a citation that would let me avoid having to read all the Patriot Act along with all its revisions?

 

The BSA would not, as far as I know, be subject to provisions of FOIA in any case, but how would Irving justify secret committees and secret documents not accessible to volunteers? If you could convince me that what you say is true, I believe I could penetrate some of their security. I realize every corporation, including non-profits, must have some secrets in order to preserve their existence. However, as a 501©(3), they also must disclose information to the public and to the federal gummint, which would be subject to FOIA. I have a lot of questions about what you say. I don't doubt your word, I just would like to have some source info.

 

Thanks, in any case, for your input.

[AK-Eagle 19]

This is a re-re post from a earlier clone of this thread

 

IMHO a new uniform would be based on the current BDU design used by the military and police, NO not camouflage! Flat green pants and a buff/tan shirt, loose fitting so they are comfortable for activities when warm or thermals can be worn underneath for cooler climates. Nylon or synthetic would be a bonus.

 

Shirt;

Make the shirt so it can be worn tucked in or out and still look good, use the cuff design on the BDU so that the sleeve can be worn rolled up. Deep six the epaulets the buttons are not comfortable under shoulder straps or replace the buttons with Velcro.

 

Pants;

Put real cargo pockets on the pants sized to fit a scout handbook at a minimum, if not large cargo pockets a combination flashlight/knife pocket, on the cuffs, blousing ribbons to tuck pants into the boots to help keep ticks out.

 

Hat;

There isnt really one hat for all jobs. I dislike the over-seas hat and for one am glad it went the way of the beret, while they look good in town they really dont belong in the woods. I wear a Tilley in all but the coldest weather and a Campaign hat for COH and for summer camp.

 

Belt;

Bring back the bottle opener leather belt! I have one from WOSM scout store with the 2007 jambo logo. Also increase the quality of web belt buckle.

 

Okay enough venting for now

YIS

 

AK-Eagle

Scoutmaster Troop 21

Juneau Alaska

 

[FScouter 24]

Hey kudu, have you checked your tin-foil hat lately? My understanding is that the government has secretly infiltrated the tin-foil industry and now has technology to implant an electronic transmission device in the tin-foil itself. If you made your hat with pre-patriot act tin-foil you should be OK, otherwise be careful.

[Kudu 186]

Thanks for the advice FScouter, it means a lot coming from you :-)

[SeattlePioneer 144]

Changing the uniform design because it's "not stylish" would not be a thrifty thing to do.

 

If the Scouts changed the uniform, imagine how many people would be complaining about the expense and nuisance!

 

Personally, I have no problem wearing the uniform in cold winter camping conditions. Of course it's covered up by additional layers of clothing under and over it, but it's there.

 

In the summer, it is somewhat hot. But I probably need to spend the money for shorts and get my short sleeved blouse tricked out for use.

 

Personally, I find complaints about uniforms to be a waste of time. ANY uniform is going to produce unhappy complaints, in my view.

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer