Merit badge program -- too easy

[EarlVanDorn]

This is my first post. My son started Scouting and then we moved so he joined a new troop. I had him join a troop that I knew from my time in Scouting had a good reputation (it is really the only troop option). As soon as I got on the email list, I was excited to see they had an aggressive merit badge program.

 

One of the reasons (I think) for this program is that a grandfather has a grandson who he wants to earn every merit badge plus his Eagle scout at the earliest possible age. Yet everyone has been able to benefit from these workshops, and sometimes boys from out of town have driven in to attend at no charge. This grandfather is a fine man, extraordinarily well connected, and he brings in talent for some of these workshops that would otherwise be hard to get. He has done a LOT for Scouting other than just the merit badge program. I certainly appreciate what he is doing.

 

My son has attended only a few of the workshops. He recently attended a canoeing merit badge course that lasted all afternoon, from noon until almost 6 p.m. My feeling is that the objectives of the merit badge were met, even if it was a little rushed, and there were several top-notch instructors on hand to teach the course. I think my son earned the badge.

 

On the other hand, there have been workshops that have lasted a mere 1.5 hours, and I just think this is too short. There are lots of ways to skim the requirements with a group of kids, but I just don't think barely meeting the requirements is what it's all about.

 

I know some on this board have criticized the summer camp programs, but at least these programs provide a minimum of five hours of instruction and sometimes 10. Five hours over five days seems like a good program to me in that it gives the Scout time to think about what is being learned. Sometimes they do a little work outside of the "class." I like the summer camp programs.

 

I'm just the parent of a Scout, nobody else. I understand this is not an isolated phenomenon. Couldn't Scouting require a minimum number of hours to be spent earning merit badges to provide a bit more rigor? Any thoughts?

 

 

[bnelon44]

Some merit badges are simply easier to earn than others. And it would be difficult to try to put a hour minimum on a badge. For example if you put a 3 hour minimum on Citz in the Nation badge, I could show a movie about the founding of the constitution (say the musical 1776) and fill up most of the 3 hours. But it wouldn't teach the Scouts much about how their govenment works.

 

The better method would be for the troop to screen MB counselors and ask them how they will approach the badge. If it doesn't sound right, don't assign the Scout to that MB counselor.

 

Also remember that the MB counselors are suppose to make sure the Scouts do exactly what the requirement says they must do. They can't change any of the requirements, they can't add to them nor subtract from them to satisfy the badge. That is national policy.

 

My 2-cents(This message has been edited by bnelon44)

[EarlVanDorn]

Well, I agree that a minimum time limit could be frittered away, but I've seen no evidence that the kids are not working diligently while they are working on their merit badges, or that the adults aren't teaching them. It's just that in my opinion they are not spending enough time on it.

 

I think these workshops must be fairly common, and if the requirement is set that Scouts must spend a minimum of say five hours on each and every merit badge, then I believe people will follow that rule. I think they are following the "letter of the law" on the merit badges, but just barely. I just think there needs to be more depth, and that can only come with a bit more time.

 

Back in the 1970s they used to have little bronze belt loop thingies that you could earn in two or three hours. I guess they got rid of those, and we didn't think much of them. It was when there was a big push to make Scouting appeal to urban kids, which we thought ridiculous since so few people live in cities. But maybe these aren't such a bad idea for those who only want to spend a couple of hours working on something.

[Eagle92]

EVD,

 

#1 WELCOME TO THE FORUMS! Why don't ya sit a spell and talk some more.

 

#2 Bnelon44 hit the nail on the head. Some MBs are easier to get than others. And yes the SM is also suppose to assign a counselor for the MB.

 

But also the district is suppose to make sure the MBC they have know their stuff.

 

Plus each Scout is different. Some MBs that might be easy for me, aquatic ones come to mind, may be difficult to impossible for someone else, and vice versa. I know Environmental Science was a challenge, and there was no way I could get nature.

 

Also each unit is different. Some units may have folks who have a keen interest in a topic that makes it easy for the scout to earn that specific MB.

 

Finally, the MB program as envisioned by the BSA is suppose to give the Scout the basic skills and knowledge in a field that could lead to advance training or career interest. I know that Lifesaving got me interested in lifeguarding, and being a lifeguard instructor. First Aid got a good friend interested in medicine, and we had a SM who motorboating MB lead him to joining Sea Scouts, getting Quartermaster, and becoming a marine engineer designing and building ships.

 

 

[Basementdweller]

As a parent you can elect to not have your scout attend these merit badge universities or workshops. As a SM or ASM you can guide your scouts away from them.

 

I agree that these short change our scouts and they come away with out any long term knowledge or skills.

 

I also don't like or agree with merit badges at troop meetings.

[EarlVanDorn]

I should make clear that they do not work on merit badges during Scout meetings. And, in fact, all of the emails for the merit badge workshops come from the grandfather who has been organizing them. It's really a tremendous oppourtunity, I'm just irritating that in my opinion not enough time is being spent on some of the badges.

 

The troop has not been a perfect fit for my son. He really doesn't enjoy the meetings. At his former troop, where he was only a member for a few months (but got to go to Scout camp), they always had a football type play time before the meetings. The current troop just "sits around." The point of all this is that he hasn't felt the need to take every merit badge, and has only been semi-active in his troop. He enjoyed himself at Scout camp this year, so I think he may get more enjoyment out of his troop next year as a result. We will see.

[Lisabob]

I think I wouldn't push him to attend these merit badge workshops, unless he really wants to go.

 

There really is no need to do them the way you are describing, or to earn all the badges (overkill!). And an adult who is determined that their child will earn X number of badges and Eagle rank as soon as possible, is really controlling their child's experience.

 

Let your son chart his own course. If it coincides sometimes, great. If not, fine. One of the cool things about scouting is that it is highly individualized.

 

About the boring troop meetings - maybe next year, your son will want to get elected as a patrol leader or something, attend PLCs, and make some suggestions for how to add a little fun time to the meetings. Or he could just funnel those suggestions up through his current PL.

[Papadaddy]

Part of the original purpose of the MB program is "adult association"...giving the scout the name and phone number of an approved MBC, then getting out of the way. The scout should learn to contact an adult (perhaps even a complete stranger-even better), introduce himself, make an appointment, use the buddy system, set up meetings and goals, and hopefully learn about the topic from an "expert" who has that topic as a vocation, avocation, or hobby. Not simply a Committee Member, ASM or his buddy's mom or dad, who is just checking off the requirements and signing the blue card. Even worse, I find these "group spoonfeedings" more distasteful and a partial circumvention of the intent. Just my 2 cents.

[Engineer61]

The local troops do this en-mass in this area...calling it "Advancement Day".

 

It's usually two or three back-to-back Saturdays at one of the LDS Stakes.

 

It's usually a 8-10 hour event...some kids will knock down 3 MB's (maybe more) each day.

[jtswestark]

Papadaddy and Lisabob nail it! I can see your appreciation for this Leader that sets up these classes, but Scouting shouldnt be about classes. While they may be exposing him to some great experiences, limit how many he takes part in or you will rob him of the experiences mentioned. Rushing and only doing the minimum is not a way to earn a badge. Another problem with many of these programs is they look for the easiest options of each merit badge and chug through it. The boy may actually want to do a different requirement than is permitted in the class and hes missing out on his own personal exploration of the merit badge topic. I personally feel a goal of earning every merit badge and early Eagle is misguided to the aims and methods of Scouting, and you are seeing the exact reasons why. Trust your gut, good intentions arent always for the best and those boys may be earning them on paper, they're really getting short changed, IMHO. (thus the disparaging term 'paper Eagle')

 

About meetings - Why do you think your son doesnt enjoy meetings? This sounds like a classroom Scout troop, do they get out at all? Id encourage you to find a troop that has a strong(er) outdoor program than this one, either formally (planned programs) or informally (pick-up football games). Boys spend enough time sitting and listening to adults babble on in school; dont let Scouting become more of that.

 

Those bronze loop things were Skill Awards that slid onto your Scout belt (Cubs use something similar to them now). I was a new Scout that earned them, I think it was geared to get us ready for merit badges. Some were specifically required for specific ranks, and a few were electives. We still have essentially the same requirements today but they are spread out over the T-1-2 ranks. I think the system today is simpler than messing with them, it was confusing to new Scouts what we had to do.

 

[boomerscout]

summer camp merit badges don't always take the full 5 days. If you come prepared, some can be knocked out in 3 or 4 days

[Papadaddy]

@boomerscout-I've seen some knocked out in one day, then the Scout sits around in the campsite the rest of the week. We had a chat with the Camp Director over that.

[Frank17]

It depends entirely on the MB, the scout(s), and the MB counselor.

 

Some MBs take months to do based on their minimum requirements; others can be knocked out in a few hours based on their maximum requirements. Most scouts want to accomplish the maximum amount in the minumum time; occasionally you will run into one that has a genuine interest / passion for the topic and who will want to learn more. That is rare, especially for the Eagle required ones IMHO.

 

So that leaves the counselor, which is one of my pet peeves. The counselor should be trained, experienced, AND ENTHUSIASTIC about their MB topic, and not just getting paid to present the topic. Generally, the local camp programs are bad since they use paid staff who do not know the topic and who are less than enthusiastic. Similarly, the local groups that sponsor MBs (museums and the like) often have no experience/training in the topic but are generally enthusiastic. Again, IMHO, the parent with a hobby or profession thsy like are often the best teacher for these classes. They have a psassion for their hobby or job which the scouts can sense and are wellsprings of information that the MB handbooks do not cover. I do not think they need to be told how many hours they need to present their topic; they will judge the audience and adjust accordingly.

[Beavah]

Yah, EarlVanDorn, welcome!

 

I think yeh point to a weakness in the program that most of us who have been around a long time recognize. Makes me sad in a lot of way, because it really shortchanges the scouting experience of kids. It becomes about getting the badge, rather than about havin' some fun with an adult doing cool stuff together.

 

The official BSA policy is that

 

To the fullest extent possible, the merit badge counseling relationship is a counselor-Scout arrangement in which the boy is not only judged on his performance of the requirements, but receives maximum benefit from the knowledge, skill, character, and personal interest of his counselor. Group instruction and orientation are encouraged where special facilities and expert personnel make this most practical, or when Scouts are dependent on only a few counselors for assistance. However, this group experience should be followed by individual attention to each individual candidate's projects and his ability to fulfill all requirements.

 

So it's OK, sometimes, to do some group sessions. If your district only has one fellow who can counsel Nuclear Science and a whole bunch of kids want to take it after seein' the plant in Japan melt down, then doin' a group orientation or some group instruction is fine... as long as the counselor then meets with each boy individually, eh? Not only to check to see if he can fulfill all the requirements, but to give him da maximum benefit of the counselor's knowledge and interest. Merit badges are meant to be mini-apprenticeships, not school classes.

 

Now it's true that some lads come with prior skills. A boy can be on a swim team and be a strong swimmer and therefore knock off Swimming MB in an afternoon. He's already had the benefit of a bunch of adult mentoring and guidance in swimming, perhaps outside of scouts. That stuff can happen for many badges, in which case it's fine for a lad to just "test out" fairly quickly.

 

But for most badges, a boy isn't goin' start with all the skills, eh? In that case, it's just plain wrong to pretend to do it in an hour and a half with a whole group. It's cheating the kids, which is the worst thing any adult can do in the scouting program shy of criminality. To my mind MB counselors who do that sort of thing should be ashamed of themselves. As a canoeing instructor, I'd be equally embarrassed by anyone who pretended to take a novice paddler up to the standard for Canoeing MB in an afternoon. Yeh just can't do that successfully, and more importantly why would yeh want to? It just isn't fun. To be a good mentoring relationship yeh want to go out paddling, do some instruction, have some fun, learn for real. As a bonus, it's much more rewarding as an adult than just running a class.

 

Scoutin' shouldn't be school, or "presentations", or "workshops". It should be about a few kids who are in to fishing goin' out with some fly rods and an adult who ties his own flies. That's da real deal, eh? Everything else is just a poor imitation.

 

Beavah

 

[BadenP]

 

Yeah I think Beavah hit this one square on the head. I have seen troops who seem to have their own little cadre of MB counselors to service only that troop, and this trend seems to be on the upswing. The checking of a MB counselor and their qualifications is almost non exsistant in most councils. The whole merit badge program seems to have

de-evolved into a race for quantity over quality just like Webelos activity pins.

 

The saddest part is that no one really seems to care just as long as the boys get their badges without a hitch.